GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2013, 22:56   #1
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,919


What are the "left/liberal" things you get?

What are liberal/leftist ideas that you are sympathetic to or at least can understand why a lot of people think it is a good idea? (and why?)

That doest mean you agree or support it (of course it could mean that) It simply means what I asked. What are some of the ideals of liberalism/ left leaning thought that you get?

For example. I am sympathetic to gay marriage.


Given the things said around here, I know plenty of you are sympathetic to price controls, unions, wage caps, socialized medicine...and a lot of other issues.

So, who is first?
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
Rabbi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 23:00   #2
Butcher
NRA Life Member
 
Butcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Eutopia
Posts: 2,525
Gun control


Hahaha jk


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Butcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 19:36   #3
Drain You
NRA member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
Gun control


Hahaha jk


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Drain You is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 23:02   #4
og23
Senior Member
 
og23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 237
Gay marriage, pro choice, separation of church and state. I think religion should not be a factor in any laws and freedom includes choices too.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Black Rifle Club #119

Last edited by og23; 03-06-2013 at 23:03..
og23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 23:04   #5
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
I am for the First Amendment and the division of church and state. I would hope there would be consvatives who would also not want a state based religion.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 15:48   #6
Cali-Glock
Mountain Man
 
Cali-Glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California Sierra Mnts
Posts: 11,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I am for the First Amendment and the division of church and state. I would hope there would be consvatives who would also not want a state based religion.
"Separation of church and state" as understood and applied today is a FAR cry from not having a state religion. The 1st amendment protects everyone's right to worship as they choose; it does not protect you from being exposed to faith.

The limitation on the Federal Government was only that they could not have a mandated faith/church such as had been common in much of Europe. For example you had to be a member of the Church of England: you could not worship elsewhere or get married elsewhere.

The 1st Amendment does not restrict Goverment from expressing faith and religion; it only limits them from requiring that you bow down to their religion.
__________________
1 Corinthians 2:2
I may be from Cali, but I ain't no yankee!

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Mal Reynolds
Cali-Glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 16:26   #7
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Glock View Post
"Separation of church and state" as understood and applied today is a FAR cry from not having a state religion. The 1st amendment protects everyone's right to worship as they choose; it does not protect you from being exposed to faith.

The limitation on the Federal Government was only that they could not have a mandated faith/church such as had been common in much of Europe. For example you had to be a member of the Church of England: you could not worship elsewhere or get married elsewhere.

The 1st Amendment does not restrict Goverment from expressing faith and religion; it only limits them from requiring that you bow down to their religion.
So, you would be cool with, say a National Church of Satan as expressed by the Federal Government? Complete with the Satantic Bible and all its trappings?
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 18:02   #8
ilgunguygt
Enslaved in IL
 
ilgunguygt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Illinois
Posts: 4,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
So, you would be cool with, say a National Church of Satan as expressed by the Federal Government? Complete with the Satantic Bible and all its trappings?
Once again, you show an amazing ability to completely miss the point and come out of left field with an incredibly idiotic statement.

That one is almost as good as "People who love thier pets are responsible for the violence in America."

One thing for sure, you dont disappoint with the garbage that drivels from your keyboard.
__________________
***RIP Okie, GT will never be the same without you Mr Mayor!***
ilgunguygt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 13:36   #9
Smithers
Senior Member
 
Smithers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I am for the First Amendment and the division of church and state. I would hope there would be consvatives who would also not want a state based religion.
It's not the same thing.
Smithers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 23:37   #10
TK-421
Senior Member
 
TK-421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by og23 View Post
Gay marriage, pro choice, separation of church and state. I think religion should not be a factor in any laws and freedom includes choices too.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Same here.

Gay marriage - Let people decide for themselves what they want to do. It's not your right to try and dictate other people's lives based upon your own choices. ESPECIALLY when they don't believe the same stuff you do.

Abortion - See above.

Religion (Separation of Church and State) - See above.

I always get a laugh when someone claims they're republican and pro-small government, and then starts going on and on about how the government needs to be super big, so that it can force everybody to follow their beliefs, because somehow, they know what's best for everybody.

Pick one or the other, you can't have both.
TK-421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 15:57   #11
Paul7
New Guy
 
Paul7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 13,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I always get a laugh when someone claims they're republican and pro-small government, and then starts going on and on about how the government needs to be super big, so that it can force everybody to follow their beliefs, because somehow, they know what's best for everybody.
It doesn't take any bigger government to not issue a marriage license to two people of the same sex than it does to not issue a license to polygamists or siblings who want to marry.
__________________
I dont believe that people should be able to own guns. Obama to John R. Lott Jr. in a private conversation at the University of Chicago.

Last edited by Paul7; 03-08-2013 at 15:57..
Paul7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 16:01   #12
Lone Wolf8634
Misanthrope
 
Lone Wolf8634's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Under the bus
Posts: 6,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
It doesn't take any bigger government to not issue a marriage license to two people of the same sex than it does to not issue a license to polygamists or siblings who want to marry.
And if we just booted the government out of marriage completely we could have a government that was a wee bit smaller.

Jus sayin..........
__________________
"Before diagnosing yourself with depression or low self esteem, be sure that you are not, in fact, surrounded by A-holes." - William Gibson

"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
Lone Wolf8634 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 22:31   #13
Paul7
New Guy
 
Paul7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 13,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Wolf8634 View Post
And if we just booted the government out of marriage completely we could have a government that was a wee bit smaller.

Jus sayin..........
Our $16 trillion debt didn't come from issuing marriage licenses.
__________________
I dont believe that people should be able to own guns. Obama to John R. Lott Jr. in a private conversation at the University of Chicago.
Paul7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 16:17   #14
HarlDane
Senior Member
 
HarlDane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Joaquin Valley
Posts: 6,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
It doesn't take any bigger government to not issue a marriage license to two people of the same sex than it does to not issue a license to polygamists or siblings who want to marry.
The size of government isn't measured solely on budgets or number of people employed. The more restrictions a government has, the "bigger" it is.

It's impossible to come up with a pro freedom, pro equal protection, pro small government argument against gay marriage; it's government intrusion into one of the most intimate aspects of family life. That's big government no matter how you cut it.
__________________
-HarlDane-
"Son of the San Joaquin"
The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly. A. Einstein
HarlDane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 22:33   #15
Paul7
New Guy
 
Paul7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 13,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
The size of government isn't measured solely on budgets or number of people employed. The more restrictions a government has, the "bigger" it is.
You're really reaching. By that reasoning our government in 1795 (infinitesimally smaller than today's) was really big government because they didn't allow gays to marry?
__________________
I dont believe that people should be able to own guns. Obama to John R. Lott Jr. in a private conversation at the University of Chicago.
Paul7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:33   #16
Glock20 10mm
Use Linux!
 
Glock20 10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Land of Idiots and Libtards
Posts: 14,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by og23 View Post
Gay marriage, pro choice, separation of church and state. I think religion should not be a factor in any laws and freedom includes choices too.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Pretty much my stance as well. In a truly free society the individual has the right to choose their course in life and they accept the consequences of those choices. Our society is not free and hasn't been for some time.

Religion again is a personal choice to engage in and one mans religion should not be the dictate of law for all men, regardless what their dogma dictates. Again in a truly free society where the recognition of God's granting of free will all men should be able to live their life and exercise their choices without having others deny or denounce them for their choices.

If you are of a religious bent then it is not our place to determine innocence or guilt of a persons choice of lifestyle and beliefs. That is for the deity to decide. Now in the case of capital crimes or crimes against others that do not result in death or injury then the onus falls upon we the people to try those accused in a fair court then punish in accordance with findings based on evidence and fact.

Same goes with women and their right to choose what to do with their body. It is not mans place to dictate right or wrong, again if you are of religious bent then the deity will make the final arbitration. It is not ours to make.

Also as pointed out by others, environmentalism to a point. I do believe we need to be better caretakers of our environment that we can find a nice balance of carbon based, nuclear and "green" energy production methods. I like clean air and water... but not at the expense of deterring the freedoms of people. I also believe we need to be better at managing our wildlife resources. We as a species are intelligent enough to see the damage we do, we can still enjoy hunting and such but we need to be a bit better at managing it. And I mean both ways.
__________________
Using Microsoft is like playing Russian roulette with an automatic pistol... the results are always messy
"The Constitution is my Law. The Declaration of Independence my bible. And Freedom my religion." - Me
Thick skin... a must in a free society.

Last edited by Glock20 10mm; 03-07-2013 at 12:41..
Glock20 10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:39   #17
HollowHead
Firm member
 
HollowHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the buffalo roam
Posts: 23,119


People can marry trees for all I care. Just don't ask me to pay for it.

On a more serious note, as someone who spends a great deal of time in the wilderness public lands must remain sacrosanct, untouched and unexploited. HH
__________________
Never trust a pastor with a day job.

Sent from two coffee cans connected by a string.

Last edited by HollowHead; 03-07-2013 at 12:59..
HollowHead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 14:02   #18
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by og23 View Post
Gay marriage, pro choice, separation of church and state. I think religion should not be a factor in any laws and freedom includes choices too.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
I'm with the pro choice and don't really care about the gay marriage, but separation of church and state is NOT a liberal idea. It was a conservative idea popular with everybody from the founders (it is Thomas Jefferson's phrase, after all) to the churches, up until at least the later 19th century. Somewhere at home I even have an original 1880's or 90's church tract about how religion should never be mixed with government, titled "Oil and Water." I believe church and state separation was a conservative ideal, both pro-religious and patriotic, until the 20th century.

Then again, that changed during the same period when the party of the confederacy somehow became the left-wingers and the party that freed the slaves came to be identified as the racist white man's party. Who knows?
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:39   #19
Smithers
Senior Member
 
Smithers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by og23 View Post
Gay marriage, pro choice, separation of church and state. I think religion should not be a factor in any laws and freedom includes choices too.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
You are aware "separation of church and state" is not in the US Constitution.

If you find it there, I will give you my Glocks.
Smithers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:59   #20
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithers View Post
You are aware "separation of church and state" is not in the US Constitution.

If you find it there, I will give you my Glocks.
When arguments about the 2nd Amendment come up, a common (and completely appropriate!) point is made to use the Federalist Papers and other writings of the founders to expand and expound on the Constitution.

Does that only apply to issues involving the 2nd Amendment?
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 09:07   #21
John Rambo
Raven
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tampa, Fl.
Posts: 8,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
When arguments about the 2nd Amendment come up, a common (and completely appropriate!) point is made to use the Federalist Papers and other writings of the founders to expand and expound on the Constitution.

Does that only apply to issues involving the 2nd Amendment?
Make no mistake, Constitutionalists and pro freedom/liberty folk are the minority on this site. Outside of the 2nd amendment, most folk here don't care for the constitution or those pesky rights and civil liberties. Just their own flavor of a dictatorship.
John Rambo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 10:24   #22
Smithers
Senior Member
 
Smithers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
Make no mistake, Constitutionalists and pro freedom/liberty folk are the minority on this site. Outside of the 2nd amendment, most folk here don't care for the constitution or those pesky rights and civil liberties. Just their own flavor of a dictatorship.
I noticed that and was/am a bit surprised.

Well, I figure our slide started around 1959 and hasn't stopped. Indeed, it's accelerating and getting worse.

Too bad doesn't quite cover it.
Smithers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 10:20   #23
Smithers
Senior Member
 
Smithers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
When arguments about the 2nd Amendment come up, a common (and completely appropriate!) point is made to use the Federalist Papers and other writings of the founders to expand and expound on the Constitution.

Does that only apply to issues involving the 2nd Amendment?
Have you stopped beating your wife ?

Expand and expound all you want regarding "Separation of church and state".

It's still not in the Constitution.
Smithers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 12:31   #24
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithers View Post
Have you stopped beating your wife ?

Expand and expound all you want regarding "Separation of church and state".

It's still not in the Constitution.
Yes, actually, it is. The phrase is not, but the purpose of the phrase is to describe the 1st amendment, so the "separation of church and state" is the first amendment. When Thomas Jefferson first said that the 1st Amendment was a "wall of separation between church and state," he was reassuring baptists who wanted to make certain that IS what it does. Sadly, their religion has been corrupted by money and politics in the 200+ years since then, so that now they'd rather mix religion with politics in pursuit of money and power.
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 11:26   #25
ChiTownPicaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
When arguments about the 2nd Amendment come up, a common (and completely appropriate!) point is made to use the Federalist Papers and other writings of the founders to expand and expound on the Constitution.

Does that only apply to issues involving the 2nd Amendment?
I believe the 2nd Amendment applies to Nuclear Weapons, Chemical Weapons, and Biological weapons. I feel that everyone should have the right to own and bear viruses and various gases in the defense of themselves or the nation. I know many true Patriots do as well.
ChiTownPicaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:10.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,282
318 Members
964 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42