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Old 02-24-2013, 20:33   #1
mr00jimbo
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Is the tactical shotgun obsolete?

I know lots of guys will wade through the muck with their Benelli or Wingmaster shotguns and bring ducks home for dinner.

But I'm talking about the shorter ones, the 18-inch-ish configuration ones with the purpose of using it for police work, "SHTF" or whatever, essentially using it for the purposes one would use a carbine.

While watching an episode of Rescue 911 (Bonus points if you remember when that show was on the air!) on YouTube, an officer was being shot by an offender at a distance that apparently was out of shotgun range, so after being injured he had to somehow reach for his M14 patrol rifle and fire back.

People have valid criticisms of the shotgun, including:
"It's too heavy!"
"It's too slow to reload"
"It holds too few rounds"
"Its limited in effective distance which puts me at a disadvantage"

All of those are good points. I mean, after all, an AR which holds 30 rounds (or 5 to 10 depending on how horrible your local laws are ) is lighter, quicker handling, and recoils significantly less. It can be reloaded quicker, is more accurate, especialy out to distance, and can be used in versatile conditions.

It seems to be the nail in the coffin of what would be a tactical shotgun. I mean, wouldn't cops or civilians alike want 30 rounds on tap compared to 6 or 7? Faster follow-up shots versus having to pump? Eliminating the jams associated with short stroking the action? Something easier on both the shoulder and the pocketbook (assuming we're talking buckshot and slug prices).

Surely somebody will stick up for the tactical shotgun? I voted with my money, with a top of the line 870 Police Magnum. Though 7.62x39 semi-automatic rifles that hang in the safe have many of the same positive attributes.

Despite the demerits against the shotgun, I can't help but grab it and a pocket full of buckshot and slugs when I head out into the woods.

But I see less and less people who want a shotgun and make a b-line for some kind of a carbine in its place, or keep the 12 gauge for birds or maybe a slug barrel for deer in wooded areas.

Your thoughts? Is the tactical shotgun role obsolete? Does it have many redeeming qualities over the AR15 platform?
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:36   #2
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Ok for certain applications, but mostly obsolete.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:05   #3
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Ok for certain applications, but mostly obsolete.


1. Carbines have been around longer than "tactical" shotguns, so why would they just now become superior?

2. The distance from which people will try to kill you hasn't changed.

3. You guys read too many BS gun magazines and listen to too many mall ninjas on youtube.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:17   #4
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Quote:
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1. Carbines have been around longer than "tactical" shotguns, so why would they just now become superior?

2. The distance from which people will try to kill you hasn't changed.

3. You guys read too many BS gun magazines and listen to too many mall ninjas on youtube.
Don't you know that these hard mofos are always going up against bad guys who dressed up like Rainbow Six operators?
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:23   #5
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Don't you know that these hard mofos are always going up against bad guys who dressed up like Rainbow Six operators?
Come clean my monitor!
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:38   #6
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Not obsolete, though far from optimal for all-around use.

Inside 20 yards against only a few opponents, the shotgun can wreak havoc in a trained user's hands. In an area where you may rapidly change ranges from 1 yard to 200 and face multiple moving opponents, the rifle reigns supreme as we've known since the 1800s.
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:39   #7
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Originally Posted by mr00jimbo View Post
Your thoughts? Is the tactical shotgun role obsolete? Does it have many redeeming qualities over the AR15 platform?
No, not even close to your first question


........you can find 12g ammo on the shelf now, how about 5.56??
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:39   #8
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Military still uses the scatter gun for close combat situations so I guess it depend on the scenario. For HD why not, still the best choice AFAIC
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Old 02-28-2013, 15:22   #9
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Military still uses the scatter gun for close combat situations so I guess it depend on the scenario. For HD why not, still the best choice AFAIC
When I was in ('05-'09) the only thing we used shotguns for were breaching doors (slugs to the hinges and/or locks), after that back to M4/M249. The M249 is especially brutal in close quarters, I'd take one over a shotgun any day.
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:42   #10
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Obsolete? **** no! My tactical shotgun will be the extension of my boot when I
jam it up zombies arse.
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Old 02-24-2013, 21:16   #11
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No, I don't think it's obsolete at all.

-ballistic breaching
-less lethal munitions
-home defense
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Old 02-24-2013, 21:35   #12
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Carbines are for the weak men and strong girls. And the 300m+ battle space is way over emphasized by the Mattel fans. The zombies aren't real.

Even ol' coots on the interwebs can do minute 'o baddy at 230 yards using a bead sight and off the shelf slugs.

Besides, who wants to watch the bad guy just drop when you can use him as a human spray paint can? Why would you want something that is liable to break or adjustably collapse if you only want to smash some perp face with the stock?





/sarc
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Old 02-24-2013, 21:29   #13
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Obsolete? No. Limited uses? Yeah.
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Old 03-07-2013, 21:52   #14
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Obsolete? No. Limited uses? Yeah.
This. At 100 yards or less, with slugs, it has the potential to be just as accurate and lethal as a rifle bullet.

Inside of 45 yards, you've got a hell of a manstopper with the right buckshot. I don't have a HD shotgun, but it will probably be the next gun I get.
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Old 02-24-2013, 21:31   #15
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Seriously? Ok...


There is no one gun that is perfect for everything. A 12g shotgun - in it's envelope of effectiveness - is THE number ONE manstopper period.

Say what you want; Take an AR and a 12g and shoot 100 BG's with each. The 12g will STOP significantly more, and more permanently. The AR fanboys will tell you how an AR can do anything from killing a squirrel for food at 1000 yards to stopping a vehicle at 30ft. Whatever. .223 moving at high velocity is as likely to pass clean through a target (particularly up close) as it to tumble, ricochet blah blah blah...

As for 30 rounds - how often are you going to miss??? And what is the cost of a miss in the home or in the neighborhood?

A rifle is not an ideal weapon indoors period IMO. Not saying it can't work, or won't work. But small cal high vel .223 rounds are not my first choice for target within 30ft, that might shoot back.

A Shotgun has an AWFUL lot going for it indoors. And in SHTF, the flexibility of the ammo for hunting small to large game from 0 to 100 yards, on land or on the windy, is unbeatable.

As mentioned - the AR has it's benefits like moving from a down the hall to a down the street shot.

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Old 02-25-2013, 05:00   #16
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Seriously? Ok...


There is no one gun that is perfect for everything. A 12g shotgun - in it's envelope of effectiveness - is THE number ONE manstopper period.

Say what you want; Take an AR and a 12g and shoot 100 BG's with each. The 12g will STOP significantly more, and more permanently. The AR fanboys will tell you how an AR can do anything from killing a squirrel for food at 1000 yards to stopping a vehicle at 30ft. Whatever. .223 moving at high velocity is as likely to pass clean through a target (particularly up close) as it to tumble, ricochet blah blah blah...

As for 30 rounds - how often are you going to miss??? And what is the cost of a miss in the home or in the neighborhood?

A rifle is not an ideal weapon indoors period IMO. Not saying it can't work, or won't work. But small cal high vel .223 rounds are not my first choice for target within 30ft, that might shoot back.

A Shotgun has an AWFUL lot going for it indoors. And in SHTF, the flexibility of the ammo for hunting small to large game from 0 to 100 yards, on land or on the windy, is unbeatable.

As mentioned - the AR has it's benefits like moving from a down the hall to a down the street shot.
and I love my AR, and would use it for HD, but I keep my 18.5" 6+1 870 12ga, loaded with 00Buck, with a 6rd side saddle on it, next to the bed for anything that goes "bump" in the night.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:23   #17
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"Tactical". "Tactical"???

Anything can be used "tactically". From Grand-Pa's old Superposed (or Purdy!), to an 870, to Mossberg, to a butcher knife, to whatever.

I hate that _ _ _ _ed term "tactical" almost as much as I hate that _ _ _ _ed term, "shottie"!!!!
("Shottie!" Sounds like junior high school jargon for, "I gotta make my shotgun sound 'so cool', dude!" -or- "I'm frum da hood, an' gotta sound like it, mahn.") Give me a freakin' break. Sheesh.

No, my beloved 870s don't have 20 or 30 round magazines, nor do they have a laser or flashlight hanging off of them.
(And none of them shoot that darned 'Rooskie' round, the 7.62x39!)

Heck, not one of my 870s have a sidesaddle attached to them!!!!

Two of them have extended magazine tubes (+2), and one of them is stuffed full of 00B, for taking care of what may intrude our home, at whatever time - day or night.

At close range. . . . where these shotguns are intended to be used, there isn't anything as devastating. Well, maybe a hand grenade, but, I don't particularly care to use one inside my house. Ha!
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:15   #18
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Is the tactical shotgun obsolete?
No. Another valuable tool one should have available for the proper application of force, near or far with the proper respective loads.

YMMV
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:29   #19
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do I own one? no...

would I like to have one? yes...I've priced a replacement barrel for my Benelli Nova and it costs more that what I paid for my shotgun 4 years ago!!! even a Hastings is up in price, but I can't find any (the downside of buying 'Italian quality' instead of keeping the Mossberg 500 I had previously)

financial constraints prevent me from obtaining one and even used 'hunting' shotguns are rising in price...why? not sure, but I would guess some folks are buying them for conversion into a tactical/defense shotgun by buying a replacement barrel or having barrels cut...

I am steadily buying all types of 12ga loads for my shotgun (just a hunting type pump shotgun) and I have yet to find more than 2 or 3 boxes of .223 or 5.56 in the last 2 months...

another thought came to mind...if a bunch of states or federal government does pass something that limits/bans/eliminates .223/5.56 semiautomatics (as well as 'higher capacity tactical' shotguns) then I think there might be a rise in sales of shotguns that hold 5 rounds with shorter barrels...not quite 'tactical' but very well suited for defense purposes...

if I ever have to 'bug out' or leave my home in a 'survival' manuever I am grabbing my shotgun and a .30-06 hunting rifle as my long guns and leaving the 'defense' rifle if I am limited in what I can haul (same thing goes for handguns...take the .357 magnum & .38 spl stuff and leave the 9mm simply due to versatility)

my overall answer...no not dead, not obsolete, perhaps in 'limbo' since the re-emergence of 'defense' rifles...

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Old 03-01-2013, 10:51   #20
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I USED to think that a shotgun was the greatest defensive tool on earth. But one night, I heard the sound of someone breaking in through the front door. I immediately got up and ran to the back door, where I kept my shotgun "staged" in a closet along with some loose shells. Running now to the front door, I fumbled with the shells and dropped them all on the floor except one. This, despite my panic and adrenaline rush, I managed to load into my pump shotgun.

But again in my panic, I kept jacking the slide on the shotgun -- ejecting the one shell I did have and continuing to pump uselessly. You may ask how my thumb managed to stay on the slide release that whole time I'm moving around. To this day, I couldn't say -- I guess $h1t happens.

I got to the front door, and the sound of me repeatedly racking the slide must have scared the attempted house-breaker away, because I opened the front door to see him fleeing into the night. I immediately fell to the floor, threw up my guts, and wept like a little girl.

This experience has taught me that shotguns are useless for home defense, and that one would be better served with a cell phone set to speed-dial 911 and a Depends adult diaper.









[/satire]

(with the help of a leftist article posted a few weeks ago)
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