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Old 02-12-2013, 17:43   #1
polarctica
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G20 - Fails to Pick up Next Cartridge

I have a fairly new G20sf that I'm quite fond of, however it almost always jams at least once going through a clip of 15 rounds. The jam consists of failing to pick up the next round from the clip. The fired round is ejected and the next round begins to lift from the clip and the slide actually smashes it in the middle of the case - doesn't pick it up at the rim, but appears to miss and catches the shell halfway. This leaves a nasty dent in the round.

This occurs with both the stock recoil spring and Wolff 20# spring.

I'm a very experienced shooter and believe I've got a firm hold (i.e. not limp-wristing it).

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-12-2013, 17:53   #2
dsa1115
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Are you using factory ammunition or reloads? Are you using Glock brand mags, and have you experienced problems with a variety of magazines?
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Old 02-12-2013, 18:07   #3
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It's very likely that the slide isn't coming all the way to the rear. Catching the case midway is exactly what would happen.

So, why isn't the slide coming all the way to the rear? Why not try the factory spring first? Or at least try it first...

What ammo are you using? If it is too wimpy, there won't be enough force to cycle the slide.

Richard
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Last edited by F106 Fan; 02-12-2013 at 18:08..
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Old 02-12-2013, 18:36   #4
polarctica
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Factory mags - I have 3 mags with the same results. I get the same results with the factory recoil spring, but it happens less frequently.

I have suspected my reloads, and I've tried different powder weights up and down to see if it changes anything - and it didn't - still jams. These are fairly stiff loads as well. I know this isn't a reload forum, but I'm using brand new DoubleTap nickel brass, with CCI300 primers, 10 gr of 800X and 180 gr Barry's or 180 gr Hornady XTP. I've gone lower and higher with the powder weight as well. Also used CCI 350's. I match factory OAL.

Are we leaning toward my reloads?
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:23   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polarctica View Post
. I know this isn't a reload forum, but I'm using brand new DoubleTap nickel brass, with CCI300 primers, 10 gr of 800X and 180 gr Barry's or 180 gr Hornady XTP.
Yeah that's pretty stiff. Book max for a 180gr jacketed is 8.7gr, so you're 15% over book, I'm not really sure what max is for plated, which needs to be loaded like lead. How does your brass look? While it's possible that it's your gun, it could be your handloads too.
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Old 02-12-2013, 18:37   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polarctica View Post
I have a fairly new G20sf that I'm quite fond of, however it almost always jams at least once going through a clip of 15 rounds. The jam consists of failing to pick up the next round from the clip. The fired round is ejected and the next round begins to lift from the clip and the slide actually smashes it in the middle of the case - doesn't pick it up at the rim, but appears to miss and catches the shell halfway. This leaves a nasty dent in the round.

This occurs with both the stock recoil spring and Wolff 20# spring.

I'm a very experienced shooter and believe I've got a firm hold (i.e. not limp-wristing it).

Any thoughts?
I'm no expert but i would try shooting from a rest. I would also try some different ammo. Either you are limpwristing, or your ammo is very weak.
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Old 02-12-2013, 18:38   #7
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Originally Posted by polarctica View Post
I'm a very experienced shooter...
Then one might think you would understand and know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

General Glocking

Pet peeve of mine...
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:01   #8
polarctica
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Pet peeves, aside, I appreciate your feedback. I'll do some more shooting and try a rest. I'm a revolver man, and limp wristing doesn't have the same effect, so maybe some humble pie is in order.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:06   #9
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I can't think of a single reason why a "fairly new" Glock wouldn't feed the next round.

If everything checks out, I'd send it in & have them fix or replace it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:26   #10
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Have a glock guy run a few rounds through it. The good thing is it seems to be doing it almost every mag for you. It should be easy to figure out. I had new 20sf that was ftfeed jamming to the hard left but only did it every 30-50 rnds. I burned a lot of ammo figuring that one out. Either the slide is not coming back far enough or there's something wrong with the mag catch and how the mag is held in position. How far does it throw the empty's? You need 2-3' to ensure reliable function. You can load lighter but you really need to keep things tight. Good luck.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:23   #11
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May very well have something to do with the use of clips. If you happen to have some magazines for it (preferably factory made), load those up with some factory fresh ammunition, use the stock recoil spring, get a firm grip on it, and squeeze the trigger.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:33   #12
dbow
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i also did experience the same failures with my G20 when i first got it. I purchased a dpi spring and it didn't really help until i shot about 50 rounds with a rest. Problem went away. Anyway, in my case, it was the indian, not the bow.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:42   #13
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Thanks for the feedback. Feedback is pretty consistent. For guys who don't live and breathe this stuff, you are all very helpful and keep the newcomers....coming.
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:19   #14
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Add another one to the list on this. I had a 20sf that I couldn't get to run right. Glock was no help and I tried 6 different mags, regular mag springs and extra power mag springs, 4 different weights of recoil springs, and every way of holding it and could never get it sorted out... until I switched reloading dies.

By chance are you loading your 10mm with Hornady dies? I found that my Hornady sizing die was out of spec and wasn't sizing the case down enough causing some setback when the round hit the feed ramp and causing it to "stick". I switched to a Redding sizer die and it all went away.

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Old 02-12-2013, 22:51   #15
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I had problems with hornaday 10mm also
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Old 02-12-2013, 22:57   #16
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What type of bullet you using?

I've heard of Glocks in .45ACP having problems with wad cutters (I realize you have a 10mm but it could be related). I think the feed ramp angle is the issue. Try some factory ammo or something (ball ammo) if you haven't done so.

Maybe your OAL needs to be changed in that gun if it's not wadcutters.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:57   #17
polarctica
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I will go back and try factory loads again and work on some more reloads and check my aol....and focus on what may be my limp wrists (rats). I use Lee dies and I haven't treated Barry's any different than the XTPs.

I started my loads at 8 gr of 800x and worked up thinking my recoil spring was too strong, but then again, it happens with the factory recoil spring. My fired brass and primers are very much the same between 9 gr and 10 gr, and I'm comfortable with the load.

However - I hadn't thought of this before, my brass for reloads or factory loads have a dent or dimple 3/4 of the way up the brass that is about the size of the tip of a Sharpy (marker). It isn't deep, but obvious. Is this normal? I don't see how whatever is causing this could be causing feeding problems, but again...

By the way, I said my G20sf is "fairly new." I purchased this brand new 5 or 6 years ago and have put around 400 rounds through it - off and on between my frustrations. In my mind that constituted 'fairly new.'

Thanks again, everybody.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:35   #18
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Quote:
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I will go back and try factory loads again and work on some more reloads and check my aol....and focus on what may be my limp wrists (rats). I use Lee dies and I haven't treated Barry's any different than the XTPs.
I'm not a big fan of the 'limp wrist' concept. I think you can hold a pistol with just a couple of fingers and it will still work. In fact, the gun MUST work when shot weak hand unsupported while hanging upside down from a tree limb. Seriously, these guns are supposed to SHOOT!

The other day, my grandson got into this topic so I had him shoot a Sig 1911 holding it lightly with only a couple of fingers. Just tight enough to keep from dropping the gun. It cycled perfectly. I have tried it with my G21SF and had the same results. It cycles perfectly.

But that's not your gun...

As to Lee dies, the Lee sizing die has a smaller radius at the opening than most other dies. As a result, it sizes just a little farther down the case. That's a good thing!

Quote:

I started my loads at 8 gr of 800x and worked up thinking my recoil spring was too strong, but then again, it happens with the factory recoil spring. My fired brass and primers are very much the same between 9 gr and 10 gr, and I'm comfortable with the load.
If you start reading on page 59 of Speer Rloading Manual #14, you will see where they talk about 'reading' primers. In fact, there is no discernable difference in the appearance at up to 20% overpressure. In other words, reading primers is hogwash! By the time there are signs indicating something is wrong, you are at least 20% over.

Quote:

However - I hadn't thought of this before, my brass for reloads or factory loads have a dent or dimple 3/4 of the way up the brass that is about the size of the tip of a Sharpy (marker). It isn't deep, but obvious. Is this normal? I don't see how whatever is causing this could be causing feeding problems, but again...
That mark could be from the ejection port. Look for some copper coloring on the edge of the port. Consider this: The round just fired and was pushed against the chamber with about 30,000 psi. If there was a dimple in the case before it fired, it sure won't be there afterwards. So, the dimple is created during extraction. My guess: The case hits the lower edge of ejection port.

Edit: If the mark is more of a scrape, it could be dragging against the top round in the magazine. Clearly, the extracting case does touch the top round but it shouldn't get more than a slight scrape.

Richard
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Old 02-13-2013, 16:30   #19
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Buy a 1911 problem solved. Jokes aside, have you tried polishing the feed ramp? I had a similar problem with a aftermarket barrel(stormlake) wouldn't cycle, I suspected the angle of the feed ramp was off. I returned it and bought another barrel problem solved.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:36   #20
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I'm surprised no one else has asked, but since you are using reloads, do you have a case gauge? Have you checked your ammo to see if it will pass a case gauge or barrel check. When I first started reloading I didn't check my rounds. Now days I use a case gauge for every one. Sure it adds a little more time to the process, but I don't have to worry about out of spec ammo causing the occasional failure to feed.
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