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Old 02-04-2013, 15:37   #1
Seawolf
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Glock & Special Forces

General Glocking

FORT BRAGG, N.C. Special Forces operators give a close-quarter drill demonstration to participants of the 2012 U.S. Army Special Operations Command Capabilities Exercise, April 26. (USASFC(A) Photos by Staff Sgt. Marcus Butler)


Good enough for our SF and the British, but not our Infantry and Marines. just sayin.
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Old 02-04-2013, 18:13   #2
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They still have that misconception that the average soldier needs a manual safety.
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:41   #3
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Originally Posted by voyager4520 View Post
They still have that misconception that the average soldier needs a manual safety.
Ahh, the average soldier DOES NEED a manual safety. They needed them in past wars; and they're going to need them in future wars, too. (It's just that, the way things are going, they're not going to have them!)

Hey! See that target? Anybody know where I can get about 50 of them? (I see Ayoob's, 'pelvic girdle shots' are back in vogue.)
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Old 02-04-2013, 20:31   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Ahh, the average soldier DOES NEED a manual safety. They needed them in past wars; and they're going to need them in future wars, too. (It's just that, the way things are going, they're not going to have them!)

Hey! See that target? Anybody know where I can get about 50 of them? (I see Ayoob's, 'pelvic girdle shots' are back in vogue.)
If the illiterate Iraqi's get by ok without them, I think our guys would do fine.
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:41   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Ahh, the average soldier DOES NEED a manual safety. They needed them in past wars; and they're going to need them in future wars, too. (It's just that, the way things are going, they're not going to have them!)

Hey! See that target? Anybody know where I can get about 50 of them? (I see Ayoob's, 'pelvic girdle shots' are back in vogue.)
If the British and the Iraqis can use the Glock then our guys can also. An American has a good chance of being exposed to handguns before entering the Military while a British subject does not.
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Old 02-04-2013, 21:56   #6
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nutz box shot ... it would never stop our politicians.
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Old 02-04-2013, 22:22   #7
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Originally Posted by Texcowboy View Post
If the British and the Iraqis can use the Glock then our guys can also. An American has a good chance of being exposed to handguns before entering the Military while a British subject does not.
Yeah, the United States has so much respect for the Iraqis that we've been arming pro USA local police forces with S&W Sigmas. (What could be more caring than that!)

Modern warfare is, increasingly, all about dying for your country. Cheap polymer pistols go a long way toward realizing that goal. The question you've raised is not so much one about, 'can you' as it is about, 'should you'.

Ergo: I'm, now, the proud owner of 3 Glock pistols that I may not be able to, either, locate or purchase new fully functional extractors for.
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:27   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Ahh, the average soldier DOES NEED a manual safety. They needed them in past wars; and they're going to need them in future wars, too. (It's just that, the way things are going, they're not going to have them!)

Hey! See that target? Anybody know where I can get about 50 of them? (I see Ayoob's, 'pelvic girdle shots' are back in vogue.)

http://www.thompsontarget.com/pages/defensetargets.html
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:02   #9
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Originally Posted by voyager4520 View Post
They still have that misconception that the average soldier needs a manual safety.
That's because the average soldier really needs a manual safety. The average officer needs 2.
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:20   #10
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That's not it at all. The military would love to have Glocks but in order to supply the US military, the design has to be open sourced. The army for example buys m-4s from several different suppliers, because they dont want the risk of one source drying up and their being left high and dry on their supply.

Glock has refused to do this, and why shouldn't they? They have more than enough business world wide and they are still backordered. Hell, everyone uses them but us.

Special Forces bypasses normal military channels for procurement; they get whatever they want with a huge budget to boot. So that is why you will see them with HK-416s, glocks, 1911s, or whatever else they feel like.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:30   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanranger View Post
That's not it at all. The military would love to have Glocks but in order to supply the US military, the design has to be open sourced. The army for example buys m-4s from several different suppliers, because they dont want the risk of one source drying up and their being left high and dry on their supply.

Glock has refused to do this, and why shouldn't they? They have more than enough business world wide and they are still backordered. Hell, everyone uses them but us.

Special Forces bypasses normal military channels for procurement; they get whatever they want with a huge budget to boot. So that is why you will see them with HK-416s, glocks, 1911s, or whatever else they feel like.
That sounds well and fine, but the real reason is the old grey haired Generals still make the decisions and they are afraid if they choose a gun without an external safety it will require more training and add more accidental discharges. SF guys get the added weapons training so they can shoot what they want, but the DOD doesn't think an 18 year old high school kid is smart enough to keep his/her booger picker off the bang button.

That and Beretta offers M9 pistols for peanuts and since the DOD already has a crap load of M9s in circulation it would just cost too much to switch.

To be honest Glock can't even handle keeping their guns in stock with the civilian market so they would need to open a new facility just for the military production. In that respect you are probably right. Beretta had to do the same thing when they got the contract. They were required to open a production facility here in the US and part of the contract stated that the M9 had to be 100% American made.
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Old 02-05-2013, 13:14   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanranger View Post
That's not it at all. The military would love to have Glocks but in order to supply the US military, the design has to be open sourced. The army for example buys m-4s from several different suppliers, because they dont want the risk of one source drying up and their being left high and dry on their supply.

Glock has refused to do this, and why shouldn't they? They have more than enough business world wide and they are still backordered. Hell, everyone uses them but us.

Special Forces bypasses normal military channels for procurement; they get whatever they want with a huge budget to boot. So that is why you will see them with HK-416s, glocks, 1911s, or whatever else they feel like.
What about the M9? Does the military get them from anyone but Beretta? Just curious.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:22   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanranger View Post
That's not it at all. The military would love to have Glocks but in order to supply the US military, the design has to be open sourced. The army for example buys m-4s from several different suppliers, because they dont want the risk of one source drying up and their being left high and dry on their supply.

Glock has refused to do this, and why shouldn't they? They have more than enough business world wide and they are still backordered. Hell, everyone uses them but us.

Special Forces bypasses normal military channels for procurement; they get whatever they want with a huge budget to boot. So that is why you will see them with HK-416s, glocks, 1911s, or whatever else they feel like.
Glock does have an National Stock Number and can be ordered though the normal procurement system.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:34   #14
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Yes it's a shot to the pelvis to drop someone. Somtimes referred to as a "mobility stop". But a famous F.B.I. Agent from many years ago named Jelly Bryce once was heard to say somethimg to the effect of "I have never shot a man in the nuts and had him stand up afterwards".
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:33   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanranger View Post
That's not it at all. The military would love to have Glocks but in order to supply the US military, the design has to be open sourced. The army for example buys m-4s from several different suppliers, because they dont want the risk of one source drying up and their being left high and dry on their supply.

Glock has refused to do this, and why shouldn't they? They have more than enough business world wide and they are still backordered. Hell, everyone uses them but us.

Special Forces bypasses normal military channels for procurement; they get whatever they want with a huge budget to boot. So that is why you will see them with HK-416s, glocks, 1911s, or whatever else they feel like.
And BTW the NSN for a Glock 17 is
NSN 1005-01-571-9875
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Old 02-07-2013, 20:14   #16
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And BTW the NSN for a Glock 17 is
NSN 1005-01-571-9875
I stand corrected. that NSN is for a glock 19
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Old 02-07-2013, 20:18   #17
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I stand corrected. that NSN is for a glock 19
Glock 17 is NSN 1005-01-426-0608

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Old 02-07-2013, 21:29   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanranger View Post
That's not it at all. The military would love to have Glocks but in order to supply the US military, the design has to be open sourced. The army for example buys m-4s from several different suppliers, because they dont want the risk of one source drying up and their being left high and dry on their supply.

Glock has refused to do this, and why shouldn't they? They have more than enough business world wide and they are still backordered. Hell, everyone uses them but us.

Special Forces bypasses normal military channels for procurement; they get whatever they want with a huge budget to boot. So that is why you will see them with HK-416s, glocks, 1911s, or whatever else they feel like.
This is a well written answer.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:25   #19
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Open source

Not trying to be confrontational,but if these firearms have to be open sourced who else makes the beretta m9?
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:30   #20
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Oops!

Nevermind. Apparently I skipped a page.
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