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Old 02-02-2013, 08:04   #1
Keoking
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Question on LEO buying personal weapon

My BIL knows I have a safe full of pistols and wants one. He is not prohibited from owning a pistol, but he and his wife are dead broke after a couple of failed rounds of in vitro.
His wife is a Wakulla Sheriff's Deputy, so I suggested that she buy him a Glock with her LEO discount, and that I would give them the money.
Is there anything illegal about his wife buying him a gun if he is not prohibited from owning one?
If she uses a LEO discount, could this be a violation of her department policy?
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:14   #2
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I can't cite chapter and verse, but it is certainly legal to buy a gun as a gift for someone else. Department policy violation? Who knows. I used to get an LEO discount from certain places, but that's because I was an LEO, not because the discount was through the department.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:03   #3
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Definitely not illegal.

Maybe.

Probably against Glock's policy for the blue label guns. I doubt they're going to send the "Glock police" after her for buying a LE labeled gun for her husband but that's not the purpose of the discount.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:19   #4
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Why don't you just give him one and avoid the ordeal?


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Old 02-02-2013, 11:21   #5
Steve in PA
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Depends.

Instead of TX, let's pretend we are talking about PA.

I'm a LEO in PA and can use my clothing and equipment allowance to purchase a firearm, provided it is something I can use "on the job". In other words, I couldn't buy a hunting shotgun or a deer rifle, or something like a Ruger Super Redhawk.

I could buy a handgun that could be used for duty or off-duty use such as any of the Sig, Glock, S&W handguns, etc. The handgun is mine, even though I used by clothing & equipment allowance to buy it, just like a pair of boots, etc.

In PA, there is no transfer required between spouses, provided the other person is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm. So in theory, I could go out and get a Glock 26 since it could be used by me for off-duty or plain clothes duty. But my wife would be able to carry the Glock because she is my wife.

Would my department object? I've done nothing wrong. The handgun is "mine" not the departments and therefore I've broken no law by allowing my wife to carry it.

Of course, I could also pay the money out of my pocket, still getting the LEO discount and the above situation still applies. The Glock is "mine", but my wife would be 100% legal in carrying or using it.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:29   #6
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The big thing to watch out for would be that said gun was purchased in store and transferred on 4473 or shipped to an FFL for transfer on 4473. The alternative would be having it sent to the agency on letterhead, and doing it that way would be an issue with the "for duty use" requirement when the gun is delivered that way.
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:19   #7
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I don't see the problem....she bought the gun, she owns the gun, her husband uses the gun....no need for any kind of transfer as she still owns the gun....it doesn't have to be a "gift" it's marital property....I think it would be the same as her using on of his deer rifles during deer season....it's still his, she is just borrowing it....
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Old 02-02-2013, 17:44   #8
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Its Called a STRAW PURCHASE.. the ATF might have a thing or 2 to say to her about that....could cause her some problems with her command...
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Old 02-02-2013, 19:28   #9
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Husband and wife's property is all mutually owned. If they were to (God forbid) get a divorce and go their separate ways, anything one party says belongs to them could be contested by the other party.

Glock's pricing is their own doing. They also extend the discounted guns to firefighters etc... They have to be able to account for discounting some of their merchandise, hence various color labels for easy sorting in the warehouse.

A straw purchase would be one where the purchaser is going to sell the firearm to someone they know cannot legally acquire one.

If it is a personally own firearm, purchased from an FFL holder, the purchaser WILL have to fill out the ATF form, and have a background check.

Have you priced ammo lately? Anymore, the gun seems like the cheapest part.
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Old 02-02-2013, 20:13   #10
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Originally Posted by BULLRUNN View Post
Its Called a STRAW PURCHASE.. the ATF might have a thing or 2 to say to her about that....could cause her some problems with her command...
Incorrect.

There is nothing wrong with purchasing a firearm to gift it to somebody else who can legally receive the firearm.

Illegal Straw Purchase Media Campaign Website:

http://www.dontlie.org/

ATF Training Video on the Topic:

http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms...swf/toon4.html

(Transcript: http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms...episode-4.html)
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Old 02-02-2013, 21:39   #11
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Its Called a STRAW PURCHASE.. the ATF might have a thing or 2 to say to her about that....could cause her some problems with her command...
Wrong x2.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:04   #12
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If she purchases it under letterhead which is what I think he is referring to it is for duty use only by the officer. An individual officer purchase is always done under letterhead which requires a superior officer to sign off on stating the the officer will use it for duty and if it is shipped directly to the department that the ranking officer has conducted a background check on the officer. You can not specifically use this method to buy a family member a weapon.

That being said, you can however buy the weapon, carry it on duty one day in a duty, off duty, back up or what ever other method you need to meet the stipulations of the individual officer purchase and then you are clear to do what ever legal things you want to do with the weapon.

The individual officer program only applies to states that allow the weapons/magazine capacity and if you can own it you can do this.
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Old 02-03-2013, 17:12   #13
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Originally Posted by spcwes View Post
If she purchases it under letterhead which is what I think he is referring to it is for duty use only by the officer. An individual officer purchase is always done under letterhead which requires a superior officer to sign off on stating the the officer will use it for duty and if it is shipped directly to the department that the ranking officer has conducted a background check on the officer. You can not specifically use this method to buy a family member a weapon.

That being said, you can however buy the weapon, carry it on duty one day in a duty, off duty, back up or what ever other method you need to meet the stipulations of the individual officer purchase and then you are clear to do what ever legal things you want to do with the weapon.

The individual officer program only applies to states that allow the weapons/magazine capacity and if you can own it you can do this.
Also incorrect. Glock makes the "blue label" pricing available at specific dealers. Those dealers can sell FTF or ship to another FFL to complete the transfer. Showing credentials to that dealer to prove eligibility for the pricing is different than a CLEO signed letter stating that the gun is for duty use. The letter is used to have the gun shipped directly to the agency, therefore bypassing the FFL/4473 requirement.
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Old 02-03-2013, 17:15   #14
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Also incorrect. Glock makes the "blue label" pricing available at specific dealers. Those dealers can sell FTF or ship to another FFL to complete the transfer. Showing credentials to that dealer to prove eligibility for the pricing is different than a CLEO signed letter stating that the gun is for duty use. The letter is used to have the gun shipped directly to the agency, therefore bypassing the FFL/4473 requirement.
That is actually what I just said. In order for them to be able to sell the weapons at LE price they have to be able to purchase the as an LE dealer. The dealer price for Glocks is higher than $395 per (not 45/10mm).

Dealer price with a significant buy in is around $415-$435 as of about a year ago for a Glock with 2 magazines. If it happened any other way Glock would have to refund the dealer the price difference or it would cost the dealer money. I understand the form also bypasses the FFL/4473 requirement and stated as such above and pasted the exact form also stating that from GT Dist which owns territory for Glock LE sales.
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Old 02-03-2013, 17:30   #15
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Sounds about right, I bought the blue label G27 on 6/6/12 ...came with 3 mags and all the other stuff the Gen 4's come with....I paid 429.99 out the door...
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:36   #16
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This brings up a similar well published situation that happened here in AZ, somebody from out of state paid another person from out of state to travel here and buy a gun, but yet neither was arrested. So in this instant I would say it is legal. But then the person that financed it seems to be above the law
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Old 02-03-2013, 17:59   #17
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This brings up a similar well published situation that happened here in AZ, somebody from out of state paid another person from out of state to travel here and buy a gun, but yet neither was arrested. So in this instant I would say it is legal. But then the person that financed it seems to be above the law
Now transferring it out of state on the other hand is a no no.
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Old 02-03-2013, 18:14   #18
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Now transferring it out of state on the other hand is a no no.

Hmmmm. Now here's a question... under LEOSA, why shouldn't a cop from state "A" be allowed go go to state "H" and purchase a gun there? As long as that purchase in state "H" is made under the same requirements imposed on CCWers in state "H"?

Yeah, I know HR218/LEOSA only says what you're allowed to do. But why shouldn't that be allowed as a natural right derived from the same rights as a CCWer in state "H?"

I know it may sound radical right now. But let's sleep on it and think about it. LEOSA gives visiting LEOs the same rights as a CCWer of that state. So let that include purchasing ammo and guns.

OK, there's the issue of transporting the gun out of state. But if the gun is not transported out of state, but kept in-state (summer home, retirement home, etc...)
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Old 02-03-2013, 18:34   #19
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Hmmmm. Now here's a question... under LEOSA, why shouldn't a cop from state "A" be allowed go go to state "H" and purchase a gun there? As long as that purchase in state "H" is made under the same requirements imposed on CCWers in state "H"?

Yeah, I know HR218/LEOSA only says what you're allowed to do. But why shouldn't that be allowed as a natural right derived from the same rights as a CCWer in state "H?"

I know it may sound radical right now. But let's sleep on it and think about it. LEOSA gives visiting LEOs the same rights as a CCWer of that state. So let that include purchasing ammo and guns.

OK, there's the issue of transporting the gun out of state. But if the gun is not transported out of state, but kept in-state (summer home, retirement home, etc...)
You most certainly could go to a store, and purchase any gun you like. The issue is the FFL holder will not let you walk out of the store with it because you are a non-resident, and will have to have an FFL in your home state receive it. Re-selling it is not the issue, but if it is transported across state lines it is a separate criminal violation.

Otherwise with as many toys as I buy on auction sites, I would take more road trips.
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Old 02-03-2013, 22:54   #20
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There was a case in Roanoke, VA where a former police officer bought a glock on discount and then sold it to a relative. He was charged criminally for it.

Here is the link to the case: http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions...d/114992.P.pdf
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