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Old 01-24-2013, 19:48   #1
KY Moose
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Home Owners Association Police???

A local paper (no online version) has an article about an HOA in Manassas, VA that just created their own police division. This is the first HOA police that I've ever heard of. Is it common in other parts of the US?

The only other info I could find was on that HOA's website. http://hunterssquarehoa.com/police/
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Old 01-24-2013, 20:04   #2
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Against the law in my State.
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:24   #3
Walter Bishop
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There are many other examples of this in Virginia. State law allows for private police called "Special Conservators of the Peace." Aquia Harbour HOA in Stafford has created their own police department. Massanutten Resort and Mount Vernon Estate are other examples.

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Old 01-24-2013, 22:53   #4
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No private property police in CA. Has to be some sort of public entity, including educational institute, utilities or something.
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Old 01-24-2013, 23:00   #5
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I know of at least one in PA that has it's own Public Safety Department. I believe for most of the guys it's a part time gig...
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Old 01-24-2013, 23:02   #6
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Over a decade ago when officer.com was good there was a fellow wh posted on there about how he worked for a gated community as a police officer. Very high end and he was essentially a sworn security guard. I wish I could remember what state it was in.

He was on their asing for advise becuase he was getting his peepee slapped for doing actually police work like writing tickets. Apparently they just wanted them to make sure anyone going in during the day was gone by night. They worked 24 hour shifts. They were basically told to sleep most of the night and just do a round or two.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:31   #7
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Over a decade ago when officer.com was good there was a fellow wh posted on there about how he worked for a gated community as a police officer. Very high end and he was essentially a sworn security guard. I wish I could remember what state it was in.

He was on their asing for advise becuase he was getting his peepee slapped for doing actually police work like writing tickets. Apparently they just wanted them to make sure anyone going in during the day was gone by night. They worked 24 hour shifts. They were basically told to sleep most of the night and just do a round or two.
Sounds like some departments I know around here.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:52   #8
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Thankfully, properly, any place I've been, police/law enforcement could only be designated by the government or a government agency, be it local/state/federal/tribal. The very thought of guards posing as police or non-designated folks putting themselves out as police gives me the willies.
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Old 01-25-2013, 17:51   #9
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Thankfully, properly, any place I've been, police/law enforcement could only be designated by the government or a government agency, be it local/state/federal/tribal.
As are these officers. The HOA can't simply hire some guys, slap some lights on a car, and call it a Police Department.

Virginia law specifies that any person appointed under the code they reference must be appointed by the circuit court judge for the jurusdiction for a specific term of service (with an end date) and must receive state mandated training.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:55   #10
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Hell they allow dental board investigators to be "police" in Tx, why not some HOA dudes.....
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:39   #11
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Hell they allow dental board investigators to be "police" in Tx, why not some HOA dudes.....
Don't those guys do drug diversion investigations? I would think that it makes sense to swear them in.

We swear in anyone that does investigations that can result in criminal prosecution, at least at the state level. Makes for a cleaner court case.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:14   #12
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I take great pleasure in telling "HOA board members" to piss off at a scene.

You really just pulled up in the middle of these police cars and fire trucks, with all these people in uniform running around, to proclaim that you're on the HOA board and demand to know what's going on? Yeah, this is your only warning to GTFO or be arrested.


Can you tell I've dealt with these mutts before?


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Old 01-25-2013, 06:38   #13
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
I take great pleasure in telling "HOA board members" to piss off at a scene.

You really just pulled up in the middle of these police cars and fire trucks, with all these people in uniform running around, to proclaim that you're on the HOA board and demand to know what's going on? Yeah, this is your only warning to GTFO or be arrested.


Can you tell I've dealt with these mutts before?


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I live in a neighborhood with an HOA, and used to have constant run ins with the old management company. I had no problem drawing the line in the sand with them, because I know what they can and can't do.

I had one of the HOA board members tell me that if I put up a satellite dish without their approval they would fine me. He saw the Direct TV guy leaving my property. I told them to suck it, because they would never know if I did or didn't. It's not visible to the road, so it's not his concern.

He told me that he could just come on to and inspect my property. I told him like hell he could, and I then issued him a criminal trespass warning. I explained that he (then entire HOA board and its agents, to include employees of the mamangement company) is not welcome on my property without my prior written consent, and I would personally arrest him (or anyone else) I found trespassing on my property.

He said that the HOA rules allow him to come on to my property at anytime. I explained that his HOA rules don't supersede state law, and if I caught him on my property the best outcome he could hope for would be to taken to jail. I further explained that if he trespassed in the face of my previous warning, I would take it as him acting with hostile intent, and as retaliatory.

I never got that fine....

Thankfully, the old board has sincd all been voted out and a new management company hired.
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Old 01-25-2013, 20:38   #14
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
I take great pleasure in telling "HOA board members" to piss off at a scene.

You really just pulled up in the middle of these police cars and fire trucks, with all these people in uniform running around, to proclaim that you're on the HOA board and demand to know what's going on? Yeah, this is your only warning to GTFO or be arrested.


Can you tell I've dealt with these mutts before?


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They are huge PITA... the HOA presidents, cannot get it through their skulls, that if it isn't state law I can't enforce it as a Deputy Sheriff. Next on the list is township trustees, wanting parking enforcement with no signage, and code violations.
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Old 01-25-2013, 23:29   #15
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They are huge PITA... the HOA presidents, cannot get it through their skulls, that if it isn't state law I can't enforce it as a Deputy Sheriff. Next on the list is township trustees, wanting parking enforcement with no signage, and code violations.
When I first started four years ago I got a noise complaint one night at the local HOA, roughly 2200 hours. I knock on the door of the condo and it's two young kids and their dad playing XBOX.

I couldn't hear it from the street (if it's not more than 150 feet it's not an ordinance violation) but you could hear it inside the house and I'm sure you could hear it ever so faintly next door. Just so happens the queen bee lives next door.


She couldn't fathom why I didn't tell them to shut it off. Just because it's annoying you doesn't mean it's illegal. The dad volunteered to turn it down and he advised he was probably going to move his TV around so as not to disturb the adjoining wall. We all BS'd for 10 minutes or so and then I let the two boys play with the lights in the patrol car. Turns up the guy is a C.O at the next county jail over. Really nice guy and I regularly stop and shoot the bull with all of them when they are out.

We could both see her staring through the blinds at us and we were both

She's the same one who rolls up on scenes in the area and DEMANDS to know what's going on.

Karma's a byatch though because I guess in the next jurisdiction she caught a failure to comply arrest because she decided to drive around a patrol car blocking the roadway of a fatal crash.

I could never EVER live in one of those places.

Last edited by Ohio Copper; 01-25-2013 at 23:30..
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:24   #16
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Hell they allow dental board investigators to be "police" in Tx, why not some HOA dudes.....
Wasn't there some legislation passed a few years back that allows neighborhoods (i.e. HOA's) to basically make their own little departments? I believe some ultra-rich neighborhood in the Dallas area got it pushed through....

Which makes sense, because only ultra-rich neighborhoods could afford the insurance.


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Old 01-25-2013, 09:37   #17
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
Wasn't there some legislation passed a few years back that allows neighborhoods (i.e. HOA's) to basically make their own little departments? I believe some ultra-rich neighborhood in the Dallas area got it pushed through....

Which makes sense, because only ultra-rich neighborhoods could afford the insurance.


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In 2005, HB 246 which would allow for neighborhood police was introduced but it died in committee.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:02   #18
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You never got a fine because an HOA cannot legally prevent you from installing a satellite dish. That is Federal law (Telecommunications Act of 1985 IIRC).
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:24   #19
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Special Police

I loathe HOAs and, if we ever move, will never live in a neighborhood controlled by these "rulers of the masses". In answer to your question, however, North Carolina and several other states authorize "Special Police". These officers are BLET certified and, on private property, to which they are contracted, have the powers of arrest.

Frequently they wear blue uniforms and in all cases that I know of, are armed. I think that most of them do a good job, but, just like everything else, there is a downside.

In neighborhoods that have not turned the streets over to a government agency - private streets, these Special Police can patrol and issue citations. A gated community would be a good example of such a neighborhood.

Most of the ones that I know about have a good working relationship with the local PD and, in many cases, are welcomed as taking a burden from an already overburdened municipal department.

John
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:54   #20
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You never got a fine because an HOA cannot legally prevent you from installing a satellite dish. That is Federal law (Telecommunications Act of 1985 IIRC).
Good to know.


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Old 01-25-2013, 08:18   #21
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I used to live in a HOA controlled condo hell. The majority of people are good folks who work hard and just want to be left alone to be with families. The only people on the board are the retired people who really have no life and need something to do.

After being run by this crazy old retired maniacal old lady who kept upping fees and doing crazy stuff, some people tried to run to get on the board and somehow couldn't win, very strange, but there was a large apathetic populace there that just wanted to be left alone and nobody wanted to fight because they were afraid of the retaliation... and she upped her madness.

She wasn't embezzling the money, because the accounts are fine, but she was spending it on dumb stuff like repainting the outside a puke green that nobody voted for... and she literally spent all day and night patrolling the area on foot in her robe, issuing warnings to people who parked in wrong spots or calling the fire department on people with too much stuff on the balcony, etc.

After a series of auto burgs, she had the brilliant idea to hire an unarmed security guard to foot patrol the parking lot... for 4 days a week (Thurs-Mon)... at night... and his job was to actually check the door handles on every car to make sure they are locked and if not, issue a warning to the car owner that his car was not locked. I guess the fact that the burglars usually struck during the weekday at night and people weren't home on the weekend evenings didn't matter... also I guess the burglars watching will just say... heck, our 4 favorite nights are patrolled so we are screwed... let's scrap the other 3 nights as well since "American Idol" is back and we can't miss that.

I saw the guard trying the door handles on every car one night and I told him to never touch my car without my permission and he said the HOA president told him to do it. I said she does not control the cars and I never gave permission for anyone to touch my car. You touch it and break something, you pay for it. (I owned a Porsche at the time) He started stuttering about how his company is bonded and insured and I said I don't care, don't touch my car unless I authorize it or else I will have you arrested.

The HOA president then confronted me one day and we had it out and she said she had all the authority to have the guard check car doors. I said it would be an opt in if we wanted him to do so but it's not an opt out where we would have to say no... and besides, she never told us that upfront so nobody even knew. She eventually backed off and said she'll continue to have him check all the cars except for mine.

I left after 2 years and my buddy got out shortly after. Nobody could stand it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:19   #22
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Interesting. I think it could be done in Kentucky, if they could convince the governor to appoint the officers as Special Local Peace Officers."
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:29   #23
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Not to contribute to the lateral slide, but when I bought last year, I specifically looked for a house without an HOA, and 90 percent around here have HOA's. I gave up a community pool/clubhouse, but don't have to worry about someone getting mad when I don't let them dictate how I use my real estate.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:54   #24
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We have a private association police department. All officers have Virginia Police Certification. Training and retraining is identical to all other state, city, county, town police departments. Our department works in conjunction with the County Sheriff providing back-up to Deputies and calling on the Sheriff when necessary.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:43   #25
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Here is the NCGS chapter that deals with company police: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascript...?Chapter=0074E

They are fully sworn and have jurisdiction on the property they control.
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