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Old 01-16-2013, 18:04   #1
RussP
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The President: We owe law enforcement the tools they need to keep us safe

Here is what he proposing.
GIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT ADDITIONAL TOOLS TO PREVENT AND PROSECUTE GUN CRIME: We owe law enforcement the tools they need to keep us safe. The President will:
o Call for Congress to pass the Administration’s $4 billion proposal to help communities keep 15,000 cops on the street.

o Call for Congress to pass new gun trafficking laws, which will impose serious penalties on those who help get guns into the hands of criminals.

o Take executive action to enhance gun tracing data by requiring federal law enforcement to trace all recovered guns.

o Propose regulations that will enable law enforcement to run complete background checks before returning seized firearms

o Nominate, and call for Congress to confirm, a director for the ATF.

o Call for Congress to remove restrictions that require ATF to authorize importation of dangerous weapons simply because of their age.

o Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

o Direct the Department of Justice to analyze information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

o Provide effective training for state and local law enforcement, first responders, and school officials on how to handle active shooter situations.
What does all that mean?

Is more needed to be effective?

Is some of that wasted time, energy and money?

Is any Federal "help" really wanted? That may be too loaded of a question...

If non-LE GT members want to ask questions, serious questions, please do. However, confiscation, donuts, JBT comments are off the table.

There'll be zero tolerance for trolling. Doing so will earn reward-points, not the good kind.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:02   #2
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I saw an article in the local paper a couple of days ago which was likely from the AP. It stated that of 80,000 denied gun purchases only 44 were prosecuted last year. Of course some were due to clerical errors. Still, I figure it would be more likely for the offender to trip on the way out, than be prosecuted. Why is that? It seems even more interesting that sales through FFL holders account for roughly 40% of firearms sales.

If these figures are true, makes me wonder what ATF has been doing in the last twenty years.

On the other hand, if the pinches were being made, where are the offenders going to be housed, what about the cost to incarcerate them?

Secondly, these mass shooting seem to be committed by mentally unstable people. Other than being adjudicated in a court of law, there is essentially no means to prevent a wackjob from legally acquiring a weapon.

Two days ago, I had a conversation with a lady about her 71 year old father. He is in the early stage of dementia. He is able to take care of his daily needs, but beginning to do the zany things that goes along with it such as inviting people he just met on the internet to stay with him, getting taken for Nigerian schemes, and blazing through the last of his retirement fund on ridiculous stuff. He has also always had a temper. He has now decided he wants to buy a gun, go through the training, and get a CCW permit. Essentially, other than trying to obtain control via probate court there is nothing the family can do to avert this looming problem.

Of these two issues, the mental health is by far more important to me. Perhaps it is because one of my duties is as a Crisis Intervention Team Deputy, and I get to interview the mentally unstable people, and often enough take them for an involuntary hospitalization. Most of the hospitals that treat psych problems have closed, and there is little funding to address these issues. So, what do you do with people that are marginally able to take care of themselves? Anyone who has worked corrections for a couple of years has watched the same people, with the same special needs keep getting into trouble.

The rest is superfluous to the problem.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:13   #3
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If his lips are moving when he talks about cops, he's lying.

Unless he's talking about his Big Sis boys and girls.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:16   #4
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He's going after C&R's? Really? How many crimes are committed every year with antique Sharps rifles? He is simply looking for anything he can call a "loop hole" and offer an answer to it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:56   #5
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I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!! Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.

I don't see how very old weapons are any problem, How many crimes are committed by some one with a 1880 Springfield trapdoor carbine? For that matter, how many crimes are committed by a 50 caliber BMG rifle? I only know of two, total, accross the entire U.S.

Putting more police officers on the streets with proper training and background checks is very good, It should have been done years ago. But giving them frivolous jobs to do that really won't do anything to really curb crime is pointless!! I have handled gang related murders where gang members could not get a gun so they simply stabbed the rival gangster with a knife several times, another where they beat the guy senseless with a 2X4 and a base ball bat then set him on fire with gasoline!! However it might help to prevent things like 20 or 25 people being murdered in a 3 minuet attack at a school, unless perhaps a bomb is used.

I thought I heard Obama say on the news that we need to totally enforce the gun laws we already have and I am totally in favor of that. Whatever happened to "use a gun, go to prison"?

Overall it could have been much worse and I can live with it.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:15   #6
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Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.
Why? How much crime would be prevented by such measures? Why does the government need to interfere in a private transacation between parties as such?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:26   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!! Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.

I don't see how very old weapons are any problem, How many crimes are committed by some one with a 1880 Springfield trapdoor carbine? For that matter, how many crimes are committed by a 50 caliber BMG rifle? I only know of two, total, accross the entire U.S.

Putting more police officers on the streets with proper training and background checks is very good, It should have been done years ago. But giving them frivolous jobs to do that really won't do anything to really curb crime is pointless!! I have handled gang related murders where gang members could not get a gun so they simply stabbed the rival gangster with a knife several times, another where they beat the guy senseless with a 2X4 and a base ball bat then set him on fire with gasoline!! However it might help to prevent things like 20 or 25 people being murdered in a 3 minuet attack at a school, unless perhaps a bomb is used.

I thought I heard Obama say on the news that we need to totally enforce the gun laws we already have and I am totally in favor of that. Whatever happened to "use a gun, go to prison"?

Overall it could have been much worse and I can live with it.

It's not favorable to the bleeding hearts that also stopped Capitol Punishment for killing a cop.
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Old 01-17-2013, 17:19   #8
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I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!! Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.
You're kidding, right?
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:19   #9
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I also believe that the president and both parties are in a position where something "must" be done, but I believe that it being used as a smoke screen for both parties to hide the looming budget and debt ceiling crisis arriving in another month.
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:38   #10
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I also believe that the president and both parties are in a position where something "must" be done, but I believe that it being used as a smoke screen for both parties to hide the looming budget and debt ceiling crisis arriving in another month.
Or vice-versa, whichever is most politically suitable at any given time.
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Old 01-18-2013, 20:09   #11
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I also believe that the president and both parties are in a position where something "must" be done, but I believe that it being used as a smoke screen for both parties to hide the looming budget and debt ceiling crisis arriving in another month.
Let the record reflect NPR reported today that the House is going to push back the new looming cliff, ledge, mantle, or whatever we are going to call it now another three months... lets see if it happens.
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Old 01-19-2013, 16:26   #12
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I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!!
How about enforcing the laws already on the books?/!

I do not trust ANYTHING this president has to say. If people are saying they think these things are reasonable, I am immediately suspicious.......

This president refuses to follow his sworn mandate.
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Old 01-19-2013, 18:32   #13
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How about enforcing the laws already on the books?/!

I do not trust ANYTHING this president has to say. If people are saying they think these things are reasonable, I am immediately suspicious.......

This president refuses to follow his sworn mandate.
Absolutely.
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Old 01-16-2013, 20:00   #14
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15,000 new officers is less than one per LEA. Of course you know the big cities in blue states are going toget way more while departments in smaller cities are going to get jack.
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Old 01-16-2013, 20:09   #15
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He wants to fund cops? Add 1000 school resource officers? Too bad your 98000 schools short. Put your money where your mouth is. We have over 2000 laid off cops in NJ. And yes Im LEO
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Old 01-16-2013, 20:23   #16
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As Blue would say, our thief in chief is yet another classic example of a used adult diaper.

Oh, I forgot: it's for the children.
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Old 01-16-2013, 20:26   #17
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I am certainly not opposed to funding to help some of these financially strapped state/local departments keep their officers on the payroll.

I do not understand what is mean by new gun trafficking laws. In some cases, a criminal obtains a firearm through a straw buyer, as was the case of the recent tragic shooting of firemen responding to a house fire. Neverthess I thought that was already illegal. I also seem to recall in the aftermath of Colombine a girlfriend of someone being culpable for obtaining a firearm and she didn't get charged.

I am not opposed to mandating background checks for all gun sales, but I don't see where any of that would have prevented any of the mayhem. I've heard rumors that Adam Lanza tried to by a gun the week before and got turned down. He resorted to killing mommy and stealing hers.

As far as data bases go, I realize that they sometimes help law enforcement trace a recovered firearm. On the other hand, if something was legal when I legally bought it, I don't really want anyone other than the factory warranty department keeping any records that I have it as long as I'm behaving in a responsible, legal manner.

Appointing an Obama chronie as ATF director will have no positive effect on the argument.

Banning C&R firearms importation? Since when did anyone use an M1 Garand or an 03A3 Springfield to commit an attrocity? Since when has anyone used an M1 Garand to commit garden variety homicide within US boundaries? Are XM15s, M16s and M16A1s coming up as eligible for import from Viet Nam?

They've been giving lip service about prosecuting gun crimes for years, but in reality? The NRA has been calling for that same thing for years, and it seems like the libs want look the other way just to spite them.

I also thought that most reported gun thefts, as long as the owner had the serial number got reported in NCIC. If not, its a pretty good idea to do. Then again, people don't record the serial numbers of their TVs or computers either, and that would make clearing a burglary case much easier for us also.

I believe that gun owners, including law enforcement must be more conscience about storing firearms when they're not being carried. How may cops lose guns when someone breaks into their cars, department or POV? How many people do not understand that a gun safe, while not the end-all, is generally the most secure way to store firearms? Taking responsibility for the things we can control is better than being forced to accept responsibility for the the things we should have.

Active shooter training? How are the feds going to make this better? I'm a fed and when I wanted to provide my people with active shooter training after Virginia Tech, I went to a local department SWAT. They gave us some great training! I need to go back for more because state/locals are most likely going to be the first reponders and are usually up to speed on what is current doctrine. What will Big Sis do besides scare kids? What expertise does DHS have over NTOA or other professional training associations?
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Old 01-16-2013, 20:30   #18
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Quote:
What does all that mean?

Is more needed to be effective?
The only thing that I think "more" might be more effective is to prosecute more Federal gun crimes. The Federal prosecutions for gun crimes have dropped dramatically under this administration.

Quote:
Is some of that wasted time, energy and money?
Yeah, probably.

Quote:
Is any Federal "help" really wanted? That may be too loaded of a question...
Unless they are going to pick up the prosecutions, all of the rest of it's window dresssing.
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Old 01-16-2013, 21:00   #19
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The cause of the Newtown shootings is plain and simple: That STUPID woman did not keep her guns properly secured. That should have been the only legislation to come of this: Secure your guns, or face at the very least a Misdemeanor charge. If the gun is used in any type of crime, guess what: You too are an accessory. That's all we needed. Not the usual political opportunism, capitalizing on the blood of innocents to further their sinister agenda.

I find myself pondering these days in part over what I would do if I ever see NATO troops on our streets. Sound far-fetched? Maybe not.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:38   #20
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Lots of people on here complain abut B.A.T.F.E. and call them cute internet derogatory names. And I agree that Fast and Furious was a grave travesty. However here and in a few other urban areas at least they (B.A.T.F.E. in conjunction with state and local officers) have had success prosecuting some of the worst, most violent felons in our society using federal courts to get very long sentences compaired to what is typically imposed in state courts. There are a small number of repeat violent offenders who commit an inordinate amount of some of thw most violent crimes. Continuing to target these guys and expanding these type programs may be one of the few things that the federal government could do to provide a fairly immediate reduction in crime rates.


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The cause of the Newtown shootings is plain and simple: That STUPID woman did not keep her guns properly secured. ....

I thought she was his first victim that he stabbed her and killed her before he took the guns.
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