GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2012, 10:57   #1
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,876
G30 bullets fail to expand?

Does anyone know if common JHP rounds have a significantly higher liklihood of failing to expand when fired out of a G30? I've been considering purchasing a G30 Gen 4 but the main thing holding me back is my concern that JHPs such as the standard Gold Dot and Winchester Ranger-T would have a high liklihood of failing to expand due to the shorter barrel. If I buy a .45, the only rounds I'm interested in using, for both practice and HD/carry are standard pressure 230 grain loads. I really don't want to mess with +p or lighter bullets. So, when using standard pressure 230 grain bullets in a G30, has anyone found a high incidence of JHPs failing to expand, or not expanding well enough?
Andy W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 11:32   #2
attrapereves
Senior Member
 
attrapereves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,301
It shouldn't matter that much. I've seen gel tests that compare a G30 and a 5" 1911. The only difference is that the JHP shot out of a longer barrel expands slightly more.

Here is a guy who tested loads out of a Springfield XDs (even shorter barrel). http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...o-testing.html

Looks like the ammo performed well.

Also, tnoutdoors9 tested 230gr GoldDots out of a G30 and a 5" 1911. One test used newspaper in jugs and the other was gel, so that might make slight differences. Anyways... the 1911 bullet expanded slightly more than the G30 bullet.


attrapereves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 14:08   #3
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by attrapereves View Post
It shouldn't matter that much. I've seen gel tests that compare a G30 and a 5" 1911. The only difference is that the JHP shot out of a longer barrel expands slightly more.

Here is a guy who tested loads out of a Springfield XDs (even shorter barrel). http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...o-testing.html

Looks like the ammo performed well.

Also, tnoutdoors9 tested 230gr GoldDots out of a G30 and a 5" 1911. One test used newspaper in jugs and the other was gel, so that might make slight differences. Anyways... the 1911 bullet expanded slightly more than the G30 bullet.

Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP 230 gr JHP SIM-TEST w/denim - YouTube

Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP 230 gr Test with Denim - YouTube
It looks like this guy got expansion!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 11:32   #4
dp2002813
Senior Member
 
dp2002813's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 2nd star to right
Posts: 431
Hi Andy,

The answer I have seen so far is no, though any bullet from any gun can fail at anytime. No problems with expanding from shorter barrel G30. Here is a link to a video.

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch...ure=plpp_video


I like the reputations of each load and carry both.
__________________
"The problem with Socialism is, eventually, you run out of other peoples' money." - Margaret Thatcher

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson
dp2002813 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 12:26   #5
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,876
Now that you bring them up, I do remember seeing these videos. In fact I subscribe to tnoutdoors9. That makes me feel better although I would like to see more tests. The Gold Dot was the load I was worried about, not so much the Ranger-T or HST. Both of these, according to Mas Ayoob, are designed for optimum expansion in shorter barrels as well as longer ones.

I see a lot of people mention they carry HST or Ranger 230 grain +p in their smaller .45s for added velocity but that just doesn't appeal to me. To me the cost is much more than the benefit. You get significantly more recoil and only a little more expansion.
Andy W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 12:39   #6
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
The bullets expanded just fine in the video.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 12:47   #7
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
The bullets expanded just fine in the video.
Yes, they did. I never said they didn't. I was initially worried the Speer Gold Dot wouldn't expand adequately from the 3.8" barrel in a G30. It did just fine in that video and it puts me at ease. Didn't they have an old 200 grain load which had huge expansion problems?
Andy W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 14:48   #8
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
Yes, they did. I never said they didn't. I was initially worried the Speer Gold Dot wouldn't expand adequately from the 3.8" barrel in a G30. It did just fine in that video and it puts me at ease. Didn't they have an old 200 grain load which had huge expansion problems?
Thanks. I was going to ask about the G30 barrel length.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 07:47   #9
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
Yes, they did. I never said they didn't. I was initially worried the Speer Gold Dot wouldn't expand adequately from the 3.8" barrel in a G30. It did just fine in that video and it puts me at ease. Didn't they have an old 200 grain load which had huge expansion problems?
I'd get some CorBon 185gr JHP +p rounds. They will expand coming out of a G30.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 11:48   #10
1canvas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ne ohio
Posts: 2,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
Yes, they did. I never said they didn't. I was initially worried the Speer Gold Dot wouldn't expand adequately from the 3.8" barrel in a G30. It did just fine in that video and it puts me at ease. Didn't they have an old 200 grain load which had huge expansion problems?
as I understand the first generation 200grn GD had issues but that problem was fixed many years ago. the older design had six petals and the current design hollowpoint has seven.
__________________
Member - Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network

Last edited by 1canvas; 03-04-2013 at 12:22..
1canvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 12:49   #11
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,622
Blog Entries: 3
The bbl is not that short. Vel loss in the 45acp isn't as critical as other service rounds, it's designed to expand going slow. I get good expansion from my 1911OM using just about any of the majors JHP. If you are really worried, drop to a 185gr or 200gr XTP JHP for higher impact vel.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 11-15-2012 at 12:50..
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 13:05   #12
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,876
By the way, I'm gonna go ahead and sort of renege on my claim in my other thread that the .45 is not significantly better than the 9mm. Yes, I still maintain that the 9mm is a perfectly adequate defensive cartridge. However, I think the .45 does offer a substantial advantage in modern loads, namely the Ranger-T and HST. When I wrote my other thread, I was not aware that HSTs and Rangers in .45 were regularly expanding to .90" or greater and still penetrating more than 12." That's almost an inch in diameter. And I think I've seen a test or two where one of these loads actually expanded to just over 1." You have one of those sharp edged mother****ers tearing through you at that size, it's gonna **** your **** up.
Andy W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 13:32   #13
GlockWheeler
Senior Member
 
GlockWheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,060
I volunteered the use of my Glock 30 during a Winchester sponsored ballistics demonstration about five years ago and the two loads used were the Winchester Ranger-T 230 grain +P and our current duty load, the Federal 230 grain HST +P. Both of these loads performed very well through all tests when fired from the G30. The HST had better overall expansion, similar penetration and suffered zero core/jacket separation. The Ranger load performed well, but had a couple core/jacket separations. We did not have access to the Gold Dot 230 grain for comparison.
GlockWheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 13:41   #14
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlockWheeler View Post
I volunteered the use of my Glock 30 during a Winchester sponsored ballistics demonstration about five years ago and the two loads used were the Winchester Ranger-T 230 grain +P and our current duty load, the Federal 230 grain HST +P. Both of these loads performed very well through all tests when fired from the G30. The HST had better overall expansion, similar penetration and suffered zero core/jacket separation. The Ranger load performed well, but had a couple core/jacket separations. We did not have access to the Gold Dot 230 grain for comparison.
How much more recoil do +p loads have in .45?
Andy W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 13:53   #15
GlockWheeler
Senior Member
 
GlockWheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
How much more recoil do +p loads have in .45?
I will not lie, the +P loads do have more felt recoil, regardless of ammo make and manufacturer. I have a Glock 29 as well and there really is no difference in recoil when I compare warm 10mm loads to the +P 45 ACP. The only reason I have the HST+P is because that was what was more readily available when I ordered my carry ammo. I would have no problem using the standard pressure loads with modern bullets, as they are designed to work well at lower velocities. I will likely order standard pressure loads when I purchase new carry ammo for the decreased recoil.
GlockWheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 18:53   #16
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
By the way, I'm gonna go ahead and sort of renege on my claim in my other thread that the .45 is not significantly better than the 9mm. Yes, I still maintain that the 9mm is a perfectly adequate defensive cartridge. However, I think the .45 does offer a substantial advantage in modern loads, namely the Ranger-T and HST. When I wrote my other thread, I was not aware that HSTs and Rangers in .45 were regularly expanding to .90" or greater and still penetrating more than 12." That's almost an inch in diameter. And I think I've seen a test or two where one of these loads actually expanded to just over 1." You have one of those sharp edged mother****ers tearing through you at that size, it's gonna **** your **** up.
I's also seen several .45ACP and 10mm ammo tests where the bullet hit 1" expansion.
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 21:00   #17
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
I's also seen several .45ACP and 10mm ammo tests where the bullet hit 1" expansion.
Awesome!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 13:54   #18
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,426
I have several cases of 9MM +P & +P+ that was purchased back when I was a NOOB and figured that more was power was always better.

Now - I care more about rapid & accurate shot placement than more power.

I can shoot follow up shots - faster & more accurately with standard power loads then I can using +P loads.

I am sure some guys can shoot both the same - and if you can GREAT. I thought the same thing until I did a few timed drills - and the stop watch proved me wrong.

I will from now on be sticking with standard power loads out of my .45 ACP.

The current HP technology seems to get good expansion even out of short barrel guns.

Strange that a few times when I went to buy some Federal HST loads (on line) the standard power loading COST MORE than the +P cartridges. I can only guess that there must be more people buying the +P.

I paid the extra $1 to get standard loads. YMMV
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 13:29   #19
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,926
If size is everything there are ways to get .50s in a Glock.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 11-15-2012 at 13:29..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 14:48   #20
dp2002813
Senior Member
 
dp2002813's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 2nd star to right
Posts: 431
Andy,

IMHO, I would stick with your original idea of avoiding +p. TNoutdoors9 did a .45 +P from Hornady's zombie line 185gr. The expansion was impressive, but again, the sacrifice was penetration depth. Important? I'm not qualified to say. I know that head-on, I'm not 12" deep, even with my expanding posterior! well maybe I am right now at the hind end of things.

Standard pressure has been getting the job done for years and I personally am comfortable with it. Even better, Mas writes in his book "Conceal Carry" that "standard pressure 230-grain 45 ACP with conventional JHP bullet pretty much duplicates the recoil and trajectory of GI hardball in the same weight, allowing cost-effective training..." Mas Ayoob, Conceal Carry Gun Digest Books 2008

I thought long and hard about short barrels and effectiveness in choosing ammo for .357mag, so I can empathize with ya.
__________________
"The problem with Socialism is, eventually, you run out of other peoples' money." - Margaret Thatcher

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by dp2002813; 11-15-2012 at 14:50..
dp2002813 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:10.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,316
309 Members
1,007 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42