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Old 11-14-2012, 23:10   #1
Gallium
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Ireland. Hindu woman in throes of miscarriage denied abortion

Father, forgive me, but your children in Ireland are simply ****ing stupid.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/14/world/...rsy/index.html
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Old 11-14-2012, 23:19   #2
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Saw the story tonight, also. It seems that the "only in the event to save the mother's life" laws are so ambiguous, doctors walk away rather than risk their license, and women die. Sad. HH
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Old 11-14-2012, 23:32   #3
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Originally Posted by HollowHead View Post
Saw the story tonight, also. It seems that the "only in the event to save the mother's life" laws are so ambiguous, doctors walk away rather than risk their license, and women die. Sad. HH

Hippocratic oath (ETHICS and honesty) apparently does not apply, nor fly in Ireland.
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Old 11-15-2012, 18:24   #4
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Hippocratic oath (ETHICS and honesty) apparently does not apply, nor fly in Ireland.
How can you blame the doctors? You don't know what the law is or how it is applied there.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:21   #5
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How can you blame the doctors? You don't know what the law is or how it is applied there.
How can you make that assertion? You don't know my occupation, or where I live.

Furthermore, I don't need to know the sun is hot from not having lived there, or that equatorial regions are warmer than living at the poles.

I can blame the doctors because I know what the Hippocratic Oath is, and BASED ON THE INFORMATION IN THE ARTICLE AND IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN it is clear where the blame lies.
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Old 11-16-2012, 17:29   #6
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How can you make that assertion? You don't know my occupation, or where I live.

Furthermore, I don't need to know the sun is hot from not having lived there, or that equatorial regions are warmer than living at the poles.

I can blame the doctors because I know what the Hippocratic Oath is, and BASED ON THE INFORMATION IN THE ARTICLE AND IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN it is clear where the blame lies.
Fair enough. I ass-u-med and I have to apologize for that.

But I still have to ask, How can you blame a doctor for following the law? If they refuse to do something that could end their careers and ruin their lives, it is hard for me to condemn them.

Did they refuse to terminate the pregnancy because the law prohibited them from doing so? Would they have faced losing their medical licenses or going to prison if they had done the abortion?

I blame the lawmakers. But unless the doctors could have aborted without facing legal sanctions, I can't blame them.
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Old 11-20-2012, 19:25   #7
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Originally Posted by HollowHead View Post
Saw the story tonight, also. It seems that the "only in the event to save the mother's life" laws are so ambiguous, doctors walk away rather than risk their license, and women die. Sad. HH
I agree.
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Old 11-14-2012, 23:48   #8
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Man, that sucks for the lady and her family. So much for European sensitivity and understanding and all that PC crap.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:20   #9
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Perfect example of what would happen here if the anti-choice zealots got their way. Go GOP, overturn Roe vv.Wade.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:37   #10
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Apparently it isn't just Muslims who cling to a medieval ideology that costs lives.
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Old 11-15-2012, 19:25   #11
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Apparently it isn't just Muslims who cling to a medieval ideology that costs lives.
All religion tries to bring people back into the stone ages. Religious laws like Sharia, and hard line anti-abortion laws like this do nothing but harm people.
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Old 11-15-2012, 20:44   #12
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All religion tries to bring people back into the stone ages. Religious laws like Sharia, and hard line anti-abortion laws like this do nothing but harm people.
I honestly think we'd have flying cars if not for religion. Hell, the Romans had better concrete than we do today, we still haven't figured out exactly how to replicate it. And if it hadn't been for the dark ages, we might have been able to keep all the good technological advances, and grow upon them, instead of having to start all over.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:59   #13
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I honestly think we'd have flying cars if not for religion. Hell, the Romans had better concrete than we do today, we still haven't figured out exactly how to replicate it. And if it hadn't been for the dark ages, we might have been able to keep all the good technological advances, and grow upon them, instead of having to start all over.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:59   #14
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I honestly think we'd have flying cars if not for religion. Hell, the Romans had better concrete than we do today, we still haven't figured out exactly how to replicate it. And if it hadn't been for the dark ages, we might have been able to keep all the good technological advances, and grow upon them, instead of having to start all over.
You are probably right. I watched a show a while back - I think an episode of Sagan's Cosmos, about how advanced the Ionians were in science and how much of that was lost and had to be rediscovered over centuries, because of christians becoming a dominant force and suppressing science.
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Old 11-15-2012, 21:44   #15
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Ireland. Asians. Maybe their skin colour played a role?
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Old 11-16-2012, 15:44   #16
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All religion tries to bring people back into the stone ages. Religious laws like Sharia, and hard line anti-abortion laws like this do nothing but harm people.
Abortion predates Christianity, so pro-choice is more primitive than pro-life.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:40   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushflyr View Post
Perfect example of what would happen here if the anti-choice zealots got their way. Go GOP, overturn Roe vv.Wade.
This is ridiculous.

Nearly the entirety of the pro-life movement has no problem with an abortion procedure that is intended to spare the life of the mother.

It's the same principle that most proponents of self-defense have: Protect life, unless that life is a threat to someone else's life.

I'm sure that there are people who don't even allow for abortion in such a case, but they are Conservative Bigfoot. Even the Catholic authorities allow for procedures that save the mother but happen to result in the death of the child when it is medically necessary. The much more relevant argument is with those who think that it's never medically necessary, which is an issue Ireland has with its medical system oversight and not one that exists much anywhere else.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:55   #18
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Originally Posted by jtmac View Post
This is ridiculous.

Nearly the entirety of the pro-life movement has no problem with an abortion procedure that is intended to spare the life of the mother.

It's the same principle that most proponents of self-defense have: Protect life, unless that life is a threat to someone else's life.

I'm sure that there are people who don't even allow for abortion in such a case, but they are Conservative Bigfoot. Even the Catholic authorities allow for procedures that save the mother but happen to result in the death of the child when it is medically necessary. The much more relevant argument is with those who think that it's never medically necessary, which is an issue Ireland has with its medical system oversight and not one that exists much anywhere else.
Finally, some wisdom in this thread. We can talk about flying cars all you want but this is an isolated case. How many millions have been aborted here in the US when there was NOT a threat to the mother's life? CNN wouldn't be a slanted "news" source either huh?
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:02   #19
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Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
Finally, some wisdom in this thread. We can talk about flying cars all you want but this is an isolated case. How many millions have been aborted here in the US when there was NOT a threat to the mother's life? CNN wouldn't be a slanted "news" source either huh?

What do all the dead aborted babies matter in the context of this story?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:28   #20
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What do all the dead aborted babies matter in the context of this story?
Well they are dead because they were murdered.
It matters because though the story sounds tragic (It is a CNN story so I take what is reported with a grain of salt), millions of tragedies take place here and I don't see too many that posted in this thread upset about it.

Rather, you'll talk about the horrors of religion, flying cars, going back to the stone age. How exactly does that matter in the context of the listed story?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:06   #21
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Originally Posted by jtmac View Post
This is ridiculous.

Nearly the entirety of the pro-life movement has no problem with an abortion procedure that is intended to spare the life of the mother.

It's the same principle that most proponents of self-defense have: Protect life, unless that life is a threat to someone else's life.

I'm sure that there are people who don't even allow for abortion in such a case, but they are Conservative Bigfoot. Even the Catholic authorities allow for procedures that save the mother but happen to result in the death of the child when it is medically necessary. The much more relevant argument is with those who think that it's never medically necessary, which is an issue Ireland has with its medical system oversight and not one that exists much anywhere else.
This is true. The pro-life crowd (me included) is concerned with the use of abortion as a form of birth control and as a result of consensual sex (which is, as I understand it, around 98% of cases). Rape, incest and danger to the mother are cases that have to be dealt with separately.

Sounds like the problem in Ireland (in this case) is that the penalty for performing an unnecessary abortion is much stiffer than being wrong, and places the doctor in an untenable position.
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Old 11-16-2012, 16:27   #22
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Perfect example of what would happen here if the anti-choice zealots got their way. Go GOP, overturn Roe vv.Wade.
Yea she would be better off living in the good ol US where women can murder unborn babies for any reason
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Old 11-16-2012, 16:29   #23
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Yea she would be better off living in the good ol US where women can murder unborn babies for any reason
At least she'd still be alive. HH
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:58   #24
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Perfect example of what would happen here if the anti-choice zealots got their way. Go GOP, overturn Roe vv.Wade.
You're quite ignorant on the subject. Elaborating would be futile in your case.

It's a state issue in any case.

Ps I'm dumbfounded this subject would show up on Glocktalk
unless in the ladies only forum.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:44   #25
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I thought they at least had coathangers in Ireland. Hook, loop, pull.
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