Glock Talk
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11-08-2012, 21:13
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,184
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'At Will' employment, what are your thoughts?
I know it has it's benefits like being able to quit. But do you think that it should be revised so that employers can't terminate without reason or warning?
With the way the economy is, I think employees should at least be given a verbal and/or written warning before being terminated and have the chance to 'fix' whatever the issue may be.
Seems there's so much talk about getting people back to work and creating job but what about keeping people at work?
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Bull Dawgs Club #571
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11-08-2012, 21:15
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#2
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Pinche Gringo
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grand Junction Colorado
Posts: 9,539
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No.
An employer should be able to terminate an employee at will. And honestly I think if it is a truly privately owned company then they should be able to do so for ANY reason they want with NO notice.
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"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves" - Bertrand de Jouvenel
"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." - Thucydides.
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11-09-2012, 11:12
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#3
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transmogrifier
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 13,215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjk5
No.
An employer should be able to terminate an employee at will. And honestly I think if it is a truly privately owned company then they should be able to do so for ANY reason they want with NO notice.
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Absolutely.
I've never understood those who proclaim that an employer "can't terminate you without good reason".
WTH? If I own a private business I should be able to hire you to give you a try, then terminate you if I decide I just don't want you around because I don't like your attitude, or fire you because of the way your momma dresses you for work.
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June 28, 2012: the day the American republic died.
Uncontrolled, unaccountable government spending + Graduated income-tax = SLAVERY
Last edited by Atlas; 11-09-2012 at 11:12..
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11-12-2012, 14:12
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#4
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toni
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjk5
No.
An employer should be able to terminate an employee at will. And honestly I think if it is a truly privately owned company then they should be able to do so for ANY reason they want with NO notice.
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There doing back here, and with out any reason, Most have 20 years or more. And its not that they did some thing wrong, Just Telling them there done.I think they want all part time,Saves them money, Iam talking about steubenville, ohio.
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be honest and kind and it will come back to you in many ways.
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11-12-2012, 14:19
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 13,976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guns54
I think they want all part time,Saves them money
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And what's wrong with that?
Employers pay employees to work. Employees get paid in such a way to maximize value for the company. Jobs are not charity. If it's cheaper for an employer to pay two part-time employees than to have a full-time employee with benefits, then that's what the employer will do.
If one of those employees wants to have a full-time job rather than a part-time job, then they need to demonstrate to the employer that they generate more value by being full-time than the additional cost of providing benefits. It's harder to do with some kinds of jobs than with others, but that's how the world works.
When jobs are more plentiful than employees, potential employees can use their scarcity power to negotiate a better deal. When potential employees are more plentiful than jobs, the power balance goes the other way.
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11-12-2012, 14:34
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#6
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toni
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067
And what's wrong with that?
Employers pay employees to work. Employees get paid in such a way to maximize value for the company. Jobs are not charity. If it's cheaper for an employer to pay two part-time employees than to have a full-time employee with benefits, then that's what the employer will do.
If one of those employees wants to have a full-time job rather than a part-time job, then they need to demonstrate to the employer that they generate more value by being full-time than the additional cost of providing benefits. It's harder to do with some kinds of jobs than with others, but that's how the world works.
When jobs are more plentiful than employees, potential employees can use their scarcity power to negotiate a better deal. When potential employees are more plentiful than jobs, the power balance goes the other way.
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Your right, But they should give them a warning that there job is gone.
__________________
be honest and kind and it will come back to you in many ways.
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11-08-2012, 21:16
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 18,012
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What few people realize is that "at will" has its limitations.
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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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11-08-2012, 21:20
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#8
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mange takk
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 4,699
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"At will" works fine here.
Employees and employers both have the right to terminate a contract of employment for any reason.
Why would it be a problem?
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11-08-2012, 21:34
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: All over, United States.
Posts: 1,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jame
"At will" works fine here.
Employees and employers both have the right to terminate a contract of employment for any reason.
Why would it be a problem?
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Because it's a fair deal and some people just want to have the deck stacked in their favor.
As if it isn't already hard enough to replace people hindering or flat out preventing the success of the business, someone comes along and tries to make companies more wary of hiring people.
If the OP got what he wanted and shafted businesses like that, you'd see an immediate decline in job openings being filled, more stringent background checks, and a very heavy burden placed on job hunters to convince a business to put them on the payroll.
Think it's hard for people to find work now?
It really isn't, honestly, but make this happen and good luck getting a new job.
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11-08-2012, 21:31
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NC and GA
Posts: 2,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop
What few people realize is that "at will" has its limitations.
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In many states, those limitations are few and narrow.
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I can only hope, that in the end, the good outweighs the bad.
"At the end of the game, the king and the pawn are put in the same box."
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11-08-2012, 21:36
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 18,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy123
In many states, those limitations are few and narrow.
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Where there is a lawyer, there is a way.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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11-09-2012, 19:51
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Willoughby, Ohio USA
Posts: 3,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop
What few people realize is that "at will" has its limitations.
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'At Will' can also mean I have no work for you....
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G - Guns, PG - Plenty of Guns, PG-13 - More than 13 Guns.
Iron, Cold Iron is Master of Men All - R. Kipling
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11-08-2012, 21:18
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 2,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjk5
No.
An employer should be able to terminate an employee at will. And honestly I think if it is a truly privately owned company then they should be able to do so for ANY reason they want with NO notice.
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I agree completely. Unfortunately, unions and lawsuits have made it so that employers almost need a court order to fire someone. That keeps a lot of people in jobs they shouldn't be doing.
__________________
"...you can't lose what you don't put in the middle... but you can't win much, either.
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11-09-2012, 04:44
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX
I agree completely. Unfortunately, unions and lawsuits have made it so that employers almost need a court order to fire someone. That keeps a lot of people in jobs they shouldn't be doing.
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You couldn't be more wrong. As an IBEW electrician, I can be laid off at any time for any reason whatsoever. There is no seniority, no review, no federal or state law to comply with, nothing. We have less "rights" than any other working personnel in the country. We also have minimum training requirements, mandatory drug testing, and at least a two year wait for another job if layoff occurs. The negative "union" nonsense people are so willing to believe here is never lacking.
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11-09-2012, 04:54
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX
I agree completely. Unfortunately, unions and lawsuits have made it so that employers almost need a court order to fire someone. That keeps a lot of people in jobs they shouldn't be doing.
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There are problems in employment law, but your assertion is beyond exaggeration and even beyond hyperbole.
Even firing a government worker is not this difficult.
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11-13-2012, 09:40
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#16
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J'aimeLouisiane
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Louisiana, CSA
Posts: 9,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX
I agree completely. Unfortunately, unions and lawsuits have made it so that employers almost need a court order to fire someone. That keeps a lot of people in jobs they shouldn't be doing.
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Teachers...
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11-08-2012, 21:26
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas Area Texas
Posts: 2,119
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Texas is an "at will" state, and rarely are people fired for no real reason as many fear when discussing this topic. Most companies have policies that go beyond what the state requires, and it is largely a non-issue. It's a good example of competition in the marketplace. Nobody wants to work for a company that mistreats its employees, so to attract and retain quality workers companies have established a culture of "we treat our people great" and it has benefitted workers. Personally I can tell you that the company I work for requires incredibly stupid behavior to be fired.
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11-08-2012, 21:29
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX
I agree completely. Unfortunately, unions and lawsuits have made it so that employers almost need a court order to fire someone. That keeps a lot of people in jobs they shouldn't be doing.
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Maybe where you are. I was just fired recently with no reason and had no prior warnings.
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GSSF Member
Bull Dawgs Club #571
Rimfire Club #571
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11-08-2012, 21:50
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#19
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武
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: KUMSC
Posts: 6,575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
Maybe where you are. I was just fired recently with no reason and had no prior warnings.
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Sorry to hear about this, but welcome to the real world. BTDT.
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Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says, "I am coming."
Virgil, Minor Poems
Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
Last edited by 427; 11-08-2012 at 21:51..
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11-08-2012, 21:55
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 7,912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
Maybe where you are. I was just fired recently with no reason and had no prior warnings.
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Fired or laid off?
No offense but why would they fire you for no reason? What did they gain?
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11-09-2012, 05:17
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#21
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iWhat?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 27,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall
The better employees thrive under at-will conditions.  |
Exactly.
I love at will employment
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
Maybe where you are. I was just fired recently with no reason and had no prior warnings.
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So they gave you no reason at all when you were let go? I find that hard to believe. What happened when you went and filed for unemployment? If they disputed it, then they will have to tell why they terminated you. Most employers, they invest enough time/effort in training new employees, they don't just can someone for no reason.
My guess is, you know why you were terminated..
IGF
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The NRA will fight for your rights in the halls of Congress.
The Second Amendment Foundation will fight for your rights in the courts.
The GOA will send out a fax or press release saying they will not compromise.
Join the NRA and SAF today!
Last edited by IndyGunFreak; 11-09-2012 at 05:19..
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11-08-2012, 21:29
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Humble, TX
Posts: 4,430
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"AT Will" is code language for screw the employee, don't like what the boss dictates - take a hike. 
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11-08-2012, 21:34
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#23
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mange takk
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 4,699
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"At Will" is actually code language for "competition".
Good employees are in demand, so employers do not want the reputation of being a haphazard workplace that's not a stable workplace.
It creates good places to work. It also creates good employees.
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11-11-2012, 13:24
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 292
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Exactly, some of us get trapped into working for ass holes. Stastics show, people like their jobs, they dislike the people who run it.
I can only speak for myself, your employer is at will also. I do not agree with at will employement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keith
"AT Will" is code language for screw the employee, don't like what the boss dictates - take a hike. |
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11-11-2012, 14:03
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 1,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyL
Exactly, some of us get trapped into working for ass holes. Stastics show, people like their jobs, they dislike the people who run it.
I can only speak for myself, your employer is at will also. I do not agree with at will employement
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No owes you a job or a living.
If you do not like your employment, make other arrangements. Go back to school, learn new skills, better yourself.
You aren't trapped unless you are unwilling to make the changes necessary to better your situation.
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