GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-02-2012, 05:57   #1
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,729


Destruction of my local Volunteer Fire Department

For decades we had a volunteer fire department. We taxed ourselves in our little district to build stations, provided them with whatever equipment they needed, new trucks, training, etc. The department had one full time employee, the chief.

Then, the department accepted a grant to hire 14 full time employees.

Then the department unionized. Added more paid employees.

Well, behold. The department is broke.

Now, the grant has run out and there is no money to pay the salaries so they're asking for an increase in taxes or else there will be a cut in services and people will lose their jobs. 90% of the budget now goes toward salaries and benes. Aren't public unions great for America?

I haven't talked to one person who plans to vote for the tax. We didn't need these FT employees with benefits for decades. We don't need them now. We'd prefer to see our home insurance increase than pay these union thugs.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 05:59   #2
Ruble Noon
"Cracker"
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,018
Seems like a perfect opportunity to revert to the voluntary basis.
Ruble Noon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 11:18   #3
G29Reload
Tread Lightly
 
G29Reload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
Seems like a perfect opportunity to revert to the voluntary basis.

This.
__________________
Avenge me...AVENGE ME!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_z2d4IxltHJ...on%26Fence.png
G29Reload is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 20:11   #4
Historian
Lifetime Membership
NRA Benefactor
 
Historian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Burried in history books
Posts: 9,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
Seems like a perfect opportunity to revert to the voluntary basis.
When I started out in law enforcement I worked a small rural county that had almost nothing but all local voluntary firemen.

And they were very good. The community loved them and had every reason to.

The night the center of the town caught fire one of the senior firemen saved the life of a new member.
__________________
"We study the past to understand the present; we understand the present to guide the future." -- William Lund

-Historian-
Historian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:31   #5
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,729


I'm thinking of seeking an appointment to the board to see what our options are and garner support to bust this thing up.

Greedy union bastards.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:34   #6
Viper16
Senior Member
 
Viper16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,237
I've seen companies lose big because of unions and I have seen companies prosper huge with their unions.
Viper16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 08:58   #7
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,871


Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper16 View Post
I've seen companies lose big because of unions and I have seen companies prosper huge with their unions.
I can see prosper with (in spite of) unions, but never have I seen one prosper BECAUSE of unions.

Of course I live in a right to work state so you don't have to have a union to get government work... or any work as far as I can tell.
racerford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 20:14   #8
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper16 View Post
I've seen companies lose big because of unions and I have seen companies prosper huge in spite of their unions.
Fixed that. It is economically impossible to prosper because of a union. The best the union could contribute is if it does nothing for its members. The sole purpose of a union is to drive labor costs above the market rate for non-union labor. You may as well claim your car runs better with water in the gas.
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.

Last edited by Bren; 11-20-2013 at 20:14..
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 20:22   #9
Atlas
transmogrifier
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: north of the equator
Posts: 14,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
.. The sole purpose of a union is to drive labor costs above the market rate for non-union labor. You may as well claim your car runs better with water in the gas.
Classic.
__________________
June 28, 2012: the day the American republic died.

Uncontrolled, unaccountable government spending + Graduated income-tax = SLAVERY

Last edited by Atlas; 11-20-2013 at 20:23..
Atlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:36   #10
itstime
Senior Member
 
itstime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 6,542
All that .gov spending. You say it wasn't needed and they just give the money away. Now what?
itstime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:39   #11
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,729


To put it in perspective, what they want adds $500 to my property tax.

Screw em. They can collect unemployment. Call it retribution for destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy. I can't wait to hear the whining.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:44   #12
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
To put it in perspective, what they want adds $500 to my property tax.

Screw em. They can collect unemployment. Call it retribution for destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy. I can't wait to hear the whining.
Relax. A man like you can pay a tax like that.

If you don't like it, do something about it. Go out and find enough people like you to go to the polls and vote a different approach. If you're so hip on volunteer F.D., fine. Convince other people. Of course... if most of the voters are property owners who get all bent over the portion of their property tax that goes to fire services, then you'll get your way. If the majority of voters are not so inclined to go ballistic over such penny ante stuff, then you will have the happy opportunity to learn to accept what you cannot change. What's not to like about that? Hum?
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:54   #13
Atlas
transmogrifier
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: north of the equator
Posts: 14,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Relax. A man like you can pay a tax like that.
...
I know CF, and yes he can pay a difference of $500 without even noticing..

I think that his concern is..
a) $500 increase now, but where does it end?
b) The principal of not having your basic self-interests held hostage by union influence when past history proves that the community can provide for itself without a "public service employee union".
__________________
June 28, 2012: the day the American republic died.

Uncontrolled, unaccountable government spending + Graduated income-tax = SLAVERY

Last edited by Atlas; 11-02-2012 at 12:56..
Atlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 17:25   #14
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
I know CF, and yes he can pay a difference of $500 without even noticing..

I think that his concern is..
a) $500 increase now, but where does it end?
b) The principal of not having your basic self-interests held hostage by union influence when past history proves that the community can provide for itself without a "public service employee union".
Judging from his various posts, CF is a whiner. What he notices or does not notice is irrelevant.

$500? For a house trailer, that would be a lot. Depending on the house, $500 would be about right.

As to unions, what's the problem? Businesses have their own union to advocate for their interest to the legislators which those businesses own and operate for their own interest. So, what's the problem with unions? Why are you so frightened of working men and women joining together to seek their own common interest? Are you afraid that they will force you to ... (it's a dirty word I know but someone has to say it ) ... accept compromise?
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 20:08   #15
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,829
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Why are you so frightened of working men and women joining together to seek their own common interest?
Why are you so frightened of business owners joining together to seek their own common interest when setting prices and wages for workers?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 08:13   #16
SevenSixtyTwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tampa Bay Area Fl
Posts: 2,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Relax. A man like you can pay a tax like that.

If you don't like it, do something about it. Go out and find enough people like you to go to the polls and vote a different approach. If you're so hip on volunteer F.D., fine. Convince other people. Of course... if most of the voters are property owners who get all bent over the portion of their property tax that goes to fire services, then you'll get your way. If the majority of voters are not so inclined to go ballistic over such penny ante stuff, then you will have the happy opportunity to learn to accept what you cannot change. What's not to like about that? Hum?
+1. This is how a Democratic Republic works.
SevenSixtyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 20:31   #17
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
To put it in perspective, what they want adds $500 to my property tax.

Screw em. They can collect unemployment. Call it retribution for destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy. I can't wait to hear the whining.
The taxes here are high. But when I call 911 the cops or fire department comes and the fire department is much better than the leo. But will your community actually volunteer in a department nowadays? Most areas have seen dramatic drop offs in community volunteerism.
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:48   #18
HexHead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,818
The problem isn't the union. It was taking the grant money in the first place.

Who did the grant come from, and was it one time money?
HexHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:53   #19
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,729


Quote:
Originally Posted by HexHead View Post
The problem isn't the union. It was taking the grant money in the first place.

Who did the grant come from, and was it one time money?
It's both.

Used to be 1 chief and bunch of volunteer Indians. Now we have layers. Cost to operate dept has skyrocketed.

Fedgov. 1 time money.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 07:09   #20
Dennis in MA
Get off my lawn
 
Dennis in MA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 52,507
Ogres have layers. Onions have layers. Now Fire Departments have layers.

Just wow. "We're from the government and we're here to help."
__________________
The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
Dennis in MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 20:18   #21
patriot550
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Ogres have layers. Onions have layers. Now Fire Departments have layers.

Just wow. "We're from the government and we're here to help."
"Better out than in, I always say!"
patriot550 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 07:16   #22
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,729


The dept operates outside of the local government. Councilmen appointing board members is the extent of government involvement. They have their own taxing district so the people of this district tax ourselves to fund it.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 08:27   #23
MulletLoad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Outer Marker
Posts: 1,086
Any idea of the fire insurance differences (commercial/residential/manufacturing) between volunteer and full time guys?

Last edited by MulletLoad; 11-02-2012 at 08:27..
MulletLoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 08:42   #24
VC-Racing
General Flunky
 
VC-Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: S.Fork of The Edisto River, SC
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletLoad View Post
Any idea of the fire insurance differences (commercial/residential/manufacturing) between volunteer and full time guys?
Fire ins is based on a ISO rating. Its the same standard whether paid or volunteer. Its based on several different things : calls, response, equipment, personal, certifications and a few other areas. We are all vol. in my station. Our ISO is a 4 as are most of the larger paid depts.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
__________________
Son, never kick a fresh cow turd on a hot day .. Hank Jr. On "The View".
VC-Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 08:44   #25
Gareth68
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Missouri....West of Mexico
Posts: 3,613
Send a message via Yahoo to Gareth68


I live in a small town. In the last year we have built a new fire station, built a new police station, got another fire truck for the larger new station, and replaced a LOT of sidewalks, oh, and built all new structures at the town park.

One would think the economy was booming.
__________________
Repent Harlequin said The Ticktock Man; you're a non-conformist.
Gareth68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:51.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,094
363 Members
731 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42