Destruction of my local Volunteer Fire Department

certifiedfunds · 11-02-2012, 05:57

For decades we had a volunteer fire department. We taxed ourselves in our little district to build stations, provided them with whatever equipment they needed, new trucks, training, etc. The department had one full time employee, the chief.

Then, the department accepted a grant to hire 14 full time employees.

Then the department unionized. Added more paid employees.

Well, behold. The department is broke.

Now, the grant has run out and there is no money to pay the salaries so they're asking for an increase in taxes or else there will be a cut in services and people will lose their jobs. 90% of the budget now goes toward salaries and benes. Aren't public unions great for America?

I haven't talked to one person who plans to vote for the tax. We didn't need these FT employees with benefits for decades. We don't need them now. We'd prefer to see our home insurance increase than pay these union thugs.

Ruble Noon · 11-02-2012, 05:59

Seems like a perfect opportunity to revert to the voluntary basis.

G29Reload · 11-02-2012, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

Seems like a perfect opportunity to revert to the voluntary basis.

This.

***Historian*** · 11-05-2012, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

Seems like a perfect opportunity to revert to the voluntary basis.

When I started out in law enforcement I worked a small rural county that had almost nothing but all local voluntary firemen.

And they were very good. The community loved them and had every reason to.

The night the center of the town caught fire one of the senior firemen saved the life of a new member.

certifiedfunds · 11-02-2012, 06:31

I'm thinking of seeking an appointment to the board to see what our options are and garner support to bust this thing up.

Greedy union bastards.

Viper16 · 11-02-2012, 06:34

I've seen companies lose big because of unions and I have seen companies prosper huge with their unions.

racerford · 11-02-2012, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper16

I've seen companies lose big because of unions and I have seen companies prosper huge with their unions.

I can see prosper with (in spite of) unions, but never have I seen one prosper BECAUSE of unions.

Of course I live in a right to work state so you don't have to have a union to get government work... or any work as far as I can tell.

itstime · 11-02-2012, 06:36

All that .gov spending. You say it wasn't needed and they just give the money away. Now what?

certifiedfunds · 11-02-2012, 06:39

To put it in perspective, what they want adds $500 to my property tax.

Screw em. They can collect unemployment. Call it retribution for destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy. I can't wait to hear the whining.

Brucev · 11-02-2012, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

To put it in perspective, what they want adds $500 to my property tax.

Screw em. They can collect unemployment. Call it retribution for destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy. I can't wait to hear the whining.

Relax. A man like you can pay a tax like that.

If you don't like it, do something about it. Go out and find enough people like you to go to the polls and vote a different approach. If you're so hip on volunteer F.D., fine. Convince other people. Of course... if most of the voters are property owners who get all bent over the portion of their property tax that goes to fire services, then you'll get your way. If the majority of voters are not so inclined to go ballistic over such penny ante stuff, then you will have the happy opportunity to learn to accept what you cannot change. What's not to like about that? Hum?

Atlas · 11-02-2012, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Relax. A man like you can pay a tax like that.
...

I know CF, and yes he can pay a difference of $500 without even noticing..

I think that his concern is..
a) $500 increase now, but where does it end?
b) The principal of not having your basic self-interests held hostage by union influence when past history proves that the community can provide for itself without a "public service employee union".

Brucev · 11-02-2012, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas

I know CF, and yes he can pay a difference of $500 without even noticing..

I think that his concern is..
a) $500 increase now, but where does it end?
b) The principal of not having your basic self-interests held hostage by union influence when past history proves that the community can provide for itself without a "public service employee union".

Judging from his various posts, CF is a whiner. What he notices or does not notice is irrelevant.

$500? For a house trailer, that would be a lot. Depending on the house, $500 would be about right.

As to unions, what's the problem? Businesses have their own union to advocate for their interest to the legislators which those businesses own and operate for their own interest. So, what's the problem with unions? Why are you so frightened of working men and women joining together to seek their own common interest? Are you afraid that they will force you to ... (it's a dirty word I know but someone has to say it ) ... accept compromise?

DanaT · 11-02-2012, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Why are you so frightened of working men and women joining together to seek their own common interest?

Why are you so frightened of business owners joining together to seek their own common interest when setting prices and wages for workers?

SevenSixtyTwo · 11-04-2012, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Relax. A man like you can pay a tax like that.

If you don't like it, do something about it. Go out and find enough people like you to go to the polls and vote a different approach. If you're so hip on volunteer F.D., fine. Convince other people. Of course... if most of the voters are property owners who get all bent over the portion of their property tax that goes to fire services, then you'll get your way. If the majority of voters are not so inclined to go ballistic over such penny ante stuff, then you will have the happy opportunity to learn to accept what you cannot change. What's not to like about that? Hum?

+1. This is how a Democratic Republic works.

JuneyBooney · 11-02-2012, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

To put it in perspective, what they want adds $500 to my property tax.

Screw em. They can collect unemployment. Call it retribution for destroying something that wasn't theirs to destroy. I can't wait to hear the whining.

The taxes here are high. But when I call 911 the cops or fire department comes and the fire department is much better than the leo. But will your community actually volunteer in a department nowadays? Most areas have seen dramatic drop offs in community volunteerism.

HexHead · 11-02-2012, 06:48

The problem isn't the union. It was taking the grant money in the first place.

Who did the grant come from, and was it one time money?

certifiedfunds · 11-02-2012, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HexHead

The problem isn't the union. It was taking the grant money in the first place.

Who did the grant come from, and was it one time money?

It's both.

Used to be 1 chief and bunch of volunteer Indians. Now we have layers. Cost to operate dept has skyrocketed.

Fedgov. 1 time money.

Dennis in MA · 11-02-2012, 07:09

Ogres have layers. Onions have layers. Now Fire Departments have layers.

Just wow. "We're from the government and we're here to help."

certifiedfunds · 11-02-2012, 07:16

The dept operates outside of the local government. Councilmen appointing board members is the extent of government involvement. They have their own taxing district so the people of this district tax ourselves to fund it.

MulletLoad · 11-02-2012, 08:27

Any idea of the fire insurance differences (commercial/residential/manufacturing) between volunteer and full time guys?

VC-Racing · 11-02-2012, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulletLoad

Any idea of the fire insurance differences (commercial/residential/manufacturing) between volunteer and full time guys?

Fire ins is based on a ISO rating. Its the same standard whether paid or volunteer. Its based on several different things : calls, response, equipment, personal, certifications and a few other areas. We are all vol. in my station. Our ISO is a 4 as are most of the larger paid depts.

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Gareth68 · 11-02-2012, 08:44

I live in a small town. In the last year we have built a new fire station, built a new police station, got another fire truck for the larger new station, and replaced a LOT of sidewalks, oh, and built all new structures at the town park.

One would think the economy was booming.

JW1178 · 11-02-2012, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth68

I live in a small town. In the last year we have built a new fire station, built a new police station, got another fire truck for the larger new station, and replaced a LOT of sidewalks, oh, and built all new structures at the town park.

One would think the economy was booming.

I see that where I live, not really a small town though. Something I have noticed, the road starts to get rough. First, they go about fixing potholes and sealing cracks, which makes it just look like crap and even rougher at times. Then they re-pave the road. Then a year later, they decide to expand the road or so some other "improvement" and ends up repaving it again. All while messing up traffic for the construction.

I-75 through North Atlanta area. They had just repaved it with asphalt, rode real nice. Then they did a ton of construction and it looked as though they were going to expand it. What they did is made huge mess and expanded the shoulders a bunch, they turned it to the concrete surface, which is kind of in sections and rides rough. Then, most recently, they decided to reroute a small part of it.

Kind of like they remodeled the courthouse in my town while building the new one, and from what I could see, they finished the renovations just in time for the move to the new building. The new building is a great improvement, and I'm glad they built it, but why did they have to spend all that money on the old one that now sits vacant?

I think a lot of people see these things, even if they don't say much. I think more people are getting fed up with the govt. wasting our money.

underwood · 11-05-2012, 20:12

Would you feel the same way if I demanded *you* give me your product and talent for free? That's what you're asking these firefighters to do. They provide a valuable service. Pay them. I'm not a public servant--I run my own business, just like you--but I pay my taxes for cops and firefighters happily, and they're union. I'm tired of public employees being bashed and belittled as thugs and leeches simply because they want to get paid a fair wage--or at all--for the valuable work they do.

DanaT · 11-02-2012, 08:51

I actually believe firemen should be paid for what they do. But I also believe people should be paid for their labor regardless of what they do. Some taxes are good.

That said, sometimes people volunteer because they want to. That is totally acceptable as long as it is truly volunteering and not forced volunteering (i.e. some university programs require students to "volunteer"....Require and volunteer cannot be used together).