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Old 10-14-2012, 04:39   #1
dango
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Entitlement ......?

I've sat back and read all the BS about (entitlement). Who are the most entitled ? Welfare , SSI , no. The best medical care ,
the best foods , transportation , etc..

You want the answer , (QUIT PAYING TAXES) and see ! Turn your back on the Government and see who is the MOST dependant.........!

PS: They have already turned their back on you ...........!

Last edited by dango; 10-14-2012 at 05:25..
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Old 10-14-2012, 05:55   #2
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The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:04   #3
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
That is no joke.

Where can you work for four years, and then be coddled for 36 months while going to college?

The old GI Bill was good. It paid a set amount.

The new GI Bill is welfare for our veterans. An E5 housing allowance for everyone?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:23   #4
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Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
That is no joke.

Where can you work for four years, and then be coddled for 36 months while going to college?

The old GI Bill was good. It paid a set amount.

The new GI Bill is welfare for our veterans. An E5 housing allowance for everyone?
Why do you hate people in the military?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:36   #5
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Why do you hate people in the military?
Why do you think an entitlement program has to be evil?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:43   #6
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Why do none of you see the real problem ?

The millitary , you ask these people to put their life on the line
and what in return ? Is it your sons or daughters ? We OWE
these people........!

We don't owe the Government , the very same people who can not decide what color to paint the BLUE ROOM !
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:02   #7
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Why do you hate people in the military?
You made a pretty big leap from assuming that having an unsustainable Post 9/11 GI Bill (Which I'm currently using) coincides with hating people in the military.

Do you think its right that I've been out of the military for almost 18 months and I have lived entirely off of my GI Bill payments? (Bear in mind that I drive a Mercedes, own a Jetski, and have bought a scooter and 2 motorcycles)

Most people do not know the new GI bill, so they say "Well, you're obviously cheating the system/not going to school/not taking a full load"

No, thats not true. I have taken between 13-15 credit hours every semester including the entire summer. The new GI Bill pays your tuition separately from your housing allowance.

Its absolutely ridiculous. Am I complaining for ME? No. But as a fiscal conservative its absolutely ridiculous. Why is it ok to give someone $100,000+ in education benefits for 4 years of military service but not okay to give an injured person healthcare/disability money/foodstamps, etc? (Not implying you've said that, just making a statement on how there is a general hypocrisy among conservatives that military spending is ok - social spending is not. NONE of it is ok)
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:55   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
I see what you did there...
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:06   #9
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
Entitlement? It's a job benefit! In exchange for risking their lives to protect the rest of us, my daughter and son-in-law were given a benefits package. I think they deserve more considering the chance of the ultimate sacrifice.

Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:09   #10
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Originally Posted by Paul53 View Post
Entitlement? It's a job benefit! In exchange for risking their lives to protect the rest of us, my daughter and son-in-law were given a benefits package. I think they deserve more considering the chance of the ultimate sacrifice.

Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?
Nope, it really is an entitlement. Look up the definition of entitlement and look at the history of how it all started. The plain and simple fact is that it is an entitlement.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:10   #11
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[QUOTE=Paul53;19517225
Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?[/QUOTE]

Police officers and fire fighters risk death on their jobs. Do they get something like the GI Bill?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:17   #12
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
Police officers and fire fighters risk death on their jobs. Do they get something like the GI Bill?
We used to get a retirement plan with good on the job benefits. Now the right wing nuts are going after that too. Its funny I know a guy who stocked vending machines and did supply orders on Marine bases for 20 years. He retired at 38. People make pee pee in their diapers for 30 year Police officers and Fireman/Paramedics retiring at 55, a bunch of those guys worked in absolute hell holes in So Cal. People are funny.

Edit- Oh don't forget that people don't have any problem with all the millions 23 year old tweekers on welfare that are drinking a cold one at 11am on Tuesday. Its the public employees that are the root of all evil, they are the ones on the "gravy train".
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Last edited by bmoore; 10-14-2012 at 10:28..
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:49   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoore View Post
We used to get a retirement plan with good on the job benefits. Now the right wing nuts are going after that too. Its funny I know a guy who stocked vending machines and did supply orders on Marine bases for 20 years. He retired at 38. People make pee pee in their diapers for 30 year Police officers and Fireman/Paramedics retiring at 55, a bunch of those guys worked in absolute hell holes in So Cal. People are funny.

Edit- Oh don't forget that people don't have any problem with all the millions 23 year old tweekers on welfare that are drinking a cold one at 11am on Tuesday. Its the public employees that are the root of all evil, they are the ones on the "gravy train".
That's because we have to pay for it.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:12   #14
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Originally Posted by Paul53 View Post
Entitlement? It's a job benefit! In exchange for risking their lives to protect the rest of us, my daughter and son-in-law were given a benefits package. I think they deserve more considering the chance of the ultimate sacrifice.

Get days off, sick pay, health insurance through your employer, is that an entitlement or benefit. Do you risk death on your job?
Dude, do you know how expensive the GI Bill is?
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Old 10-15-2012, 14:53   #15
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.

please explain how the GI Bill is a "social entitlement."

you see i read "social entitlement" as EVERYONE gets it. to receive GI Bill bennies, you MUST SERVE in the MILITARY.

i have now served 24+ years. i have spent over 4 of those years away from my wife and kids. i have missed, proms, homecoming games where one of my daughters was in the HC Court. i missed first steps, first swimming pool.

i missed first pet. i missed alot serving my country, time, memories and experiences i will NEVER, NEVER get back so that IDIOTS like you can complain about me receiving the GI Bill.

oh, btw, i PAID $1200 as an E2 for my initial GI Bill, THEN, i got the wonderful chance to PAY another $600 for TOP UP. THEN i got to watch as new guys coming in got the SAME GI Bill as I paid for for free!

do i begrudge them? hell no. social entitlements are free public education (indoctrination), welfare, unemployment, SSI for those that did NOT pay into it, etc...

please get an F'ing clue before you post more stupidity.
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Old 10-15-2012, 15:00   #16
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Is the GI Bill an entitlement?

Well DUH of course it is - but don't believe me - ask the VA.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/p...0_pamphlet.pdf

Go ALL THE way down to page 3 under the heading

"ELIGIBILITY and ENTITLEMENT"

These sections may also show some interest --

HOW DO WE CHARGE ENTITLEMENT?......... 20
CAN WE EXTEND YOUR ENTITLEMENT?...... 21
CAN WE RESTORE YOUR ENTITLEMENT IF
YOU HAVE TO DROP OUT OF SCHOOL?....... 21
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Old 10-15-2012, 15:07   #17
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Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
Is the GI Bill an entitlement?

Well DUH of course it is - but don't believe me - ask the VA.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/p...0_pamphlet.pdf

Go ALL THE way down to page 3 under the heading

"ELIGIBILITY and ENTITLEMENT"

These sections may also show some interest --

HOW DO WE CHARGE ENTITLEMENT?......... 20
CAN WE EXTEND YOUR ENTITLEMENT?...... 21
CAN WE RESTORE YOUR ENTITLEMENT IF
YOU HAVE TO DROP OUT OF SCHOOL?....... 21
Entitlement is being used as a description of benfits, NOT the same meaning as welfare, unemplyment etc...

after paying your dues or serving in the military, you are granted these benefits as part of your service agreement thus, you are "entitled" to receive the bennies.

it is NOT an entitlement in the sense of welfare. the OP is just trolling and trying to stir the pot so to speak.

Last edited by IQof1; 10-15-2012 at 15:11..
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:06   #18
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Originally Posted by IQof1 View Post
Entitlement is being used as a description of benfits, NOT the same meaning as welfare, unemplyment etc...

after paying your dues or serving in the military, you are granted these benefits as part of your service agreement thus, you are "entitled" to receive the bennies.

it is NOT an entitlement in the sense of welfare. the OP is just trolling and trying to stir the pot so to speak.
You are getting at the root of the argument.

The GI Bill (and other military veterans programs) IS an entitlement program. By law, by definition, by wording it is entitlement. I highly suspect if you read your contract the US govt is allowed to change entitlement benefits as they chose in the future.

It is the same as social security.

What you are complaining about (and other posters below you) is WHAT you did to get that entitlement program

What people have done to think they are entitled to the benefits.

Military Entitlements: You served in the Military

Social Security: You paid SS TAX

Can you see how people feel entitled? They did what was asked of them and then they want what they were promised in return.

Where you get upset is the equating these entitlements to programs that most of the population looks down upon. But look, people who receive these entitlements had to so something to be entitled to the benefits.

Welfare: Be born in USA and not work. It helps to pop out a few babies along the way.

Free Telephone: Be born in USA and not work.


The argument is not if the GI Bill is an entitlement (it is, end of story...you can say what you want but it is defined in law as such), but whether the entitlement was an earned entitlement vs an unearned entitlement.

It is such a hot topic because "conservatives" in general dislike welfare and other entitlements. I suspect .mil guys like them (welfare recipients) even less from the ones I know. Since they so despise them, they dont want to be seen as taking entitlements and being "one of them".


Again, I am in my own small world, but I see military service as something we owe soldiers for. Essentially, they have given up the best years of their lives to do something for society. I also believe the USA as a whole benefits from soldiers getting college education. I believe giving money for school to people who have given to the country is a better way allocating scholarship money than Pell grants.

But I also believe that as Americans our best chances for the future is to educate our children. They are the next generation(s). I would prefer to see universities andtrade schools follow the European models where a young adult starting out doesnt start in the hole. I would prefer to see university/trade school be free for all students (legally in the USA). Of course that said, our education system needs some serious fixing.

I know that I am a raving communist saying that, but some things are worth the price society has to pay. Paying our soldiers what we owe them = yes. Getting every child educated to be a productive adult = yes. Paying $1M to keep someone mother alive an extra 2 months = no.

To determine if a program is worth while, I ask myself, does SOCIETY benefit or are only individuals benefiting.

Take a free cell. Society does not benefit one bit, only individuals. = Not worthwhile.
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Old 10-15-2012, 15:11   #19
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Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
Is the GI Bill an entitlement?

Well DUH of course it is - but don't believe me - ask the VA.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/p...0_pamphlet.pdf

Go ALL THE way down to page 3 under the heading

"ELIGIBILITY and ENTITLEMENT"

These sections may also show some interest --

HOW DO WE CHARGE ENTITLEMENT?......... 20
CAN WE EXTEND YOUR ENTITLEMENT?...... 21
CAN WE RESTORE YOUR ENTITLEMENT IF
YOU HAVE TO DROP OUT OF SCHOOL?....... 21
I hope you are not serious.

This is a simple case of a word taking on a different meaning in a different context.

When you serve in the military you are 'entitled' to GI Bill benefits, which are a benefit of your employment. Thus the use of the word 'entitlement'.

You are not 'entitled' to a free phone, free food, or free housing, simply because you were born and exist in this country. These are the type of 'entitlements' (we could call them unearned entitlements) that are controversial.

If the GI Bill is an entitlement, then so is any other benefit or, more specifically, form of compensation, provided by one's employer; sick days, vacation days, health and dental, etc., are all entitlements, right? In fact, by the same line of reasoning, one's wage or salary would also become an entitlement.

These argumentum ad nauseam posts about semantics are really growing old.

There's a huge difference between something that you are IN FACT entitled to because you earned it, and something that you BELIEVE you are entitled to simply because you exist and because you THINK you are entitled to receive it for free.

Context.

Last edited by Panglоss; 10-15-2012 at 15:13..
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Old 10-15-2012, 15:39   #20
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Originally Posted by Panglоss View Post
I hope you are not serious.

This is a simple case of a word taking on a different meaning in a different context.

When you serve in the military you are 'entitled' to GI Bill benefits, which are a benefit of your employment. Thus the use of the word 'entitlement'.

You are not 'entitled' to a free phone, free food, or free housing, simply because you were born and exist in this country. These are the type of 'entitlements' (we could call them unearned entitlements) that are controversial.

If the GI Bill is an entitlement, then so is any other benefit or, more specifically, form of compensation, provided by one's employer; sick days, vacation days, health and dental, etc., are all entitlements, right? In fact, by the same line of reasoning, one's wage or salary would also become an entitlement.

These argumentum ad nauseam posts about semantics are really growing old.

There's a huge difference between something that you are IN FACT entitled to because you earned it, and something that you BELIEVE you are entitled to simply because you exist and because you THINK you are entitled to receive it for free.

Context.
The reason the correct term is ENTITLEMENT is because a law was passed - providing these benefits to people - if they meet specific criteria they are ENTITLED to the GOVERNMENT PAID BENEFIT.

That is what an entitlement program is -

Social security, medicare, GI Bill, unemployment payments, food stamps, free phones for the poor, medicaid, heating payments assistance, housing allowance for poor, heck I would even add it the earned in come credit.

All of these are entitlements -

If the very government agency that administers the program calls it an entitlement - why is it not an entitlement?

The problem with the terms is yours -

You could make a valid case that not all of these programs are welfare - but there is just no way possible to not call them entitlements.

BTW - congress passes a law that says a person - that meets specific criteria - is entitled to a free phone - they are just as entitled to the free phone - as a person that paid XX into social security is to SS payments - just as entitled as a service member is to the entitlement benefit under the GI bill - or a student is entitled to a student loan.

At least until the flow of cash / ability to borrow runs out or congress changes the law.

Last edited by Z71bill; 10-15-2012 at 19:10..
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Old 10-15-2012, 19:35   #21
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10k for the GI Bill?

Not anymore.

THe point of the GI Bill that many of us are trying to make is that IT IS COMPLETELY UNSUSTAINABLE.

I make over $30,000/yr in educational benefits! Thats more than I made as an NCO on active duty.
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Old 10-19-2012, 22:24   #22
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
That makes no sense at all to me. Can you explain?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:47   #23
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This is a prime example of the hypocrisy that is running rampant among Conservatives. They believe the pablum spoon fed to them without thinking for themselves and then spout it back while denying the truth.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:48   #24
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This is a prime example of the hypocrisy that is running rampant among Conservatives. They believe the pablum spoon fed to them without thinking for themselves and then spout it back while denying the truth.
Truth...........?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:49   #25
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Truth...........?
The truth is, the GI Bill is an entitlement program.
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