.45 ACP Small Primer v Large Primer loads

Buckeye Glocks · 10-08-2012, 08:55

How do you alter your loads when using small primer brass vs. larger primer brass for your .45 acp?

I recently acquired a large lot of brass - tumbled, inspected, and sorted it and found about 25% of it was small primer brass. I have only loaded large primer .45 acp in the past and wondered what any of you may do differently or if you have any suggestions.

Thanks

ColoCG · 10-08-2012, 08:58

No alteration needed, just use the load you would use with LP but substitute SP. Simple.

DoctaGlockta · 10-08-2012, 09:07

Same load with SP in 45acp does seem a little softer to me. Could be my imagination.

Buckeye Glocks · 10-08-2012, 09:22

Thanks - That is what I thought but was not 100% and knew I could get a legit answer here.

fredj338 · 10-08-2012, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctaGlockta

Same load with SP in 45acp does seem a little softer to me. Could be my imagination.

There is a small vel drop off w/ most powders, that could account for the "Softer' feeling load. So if you are worried about making PF, I woild bump the powder charge 1/10gr to account for that. Better way is to trade off the bastard sp brass for proper LP 45acp.

Colorado4Wheel · 10-08-2012, 10:09

I agree, Trade all that large pistol crap for SP and double your stash. Then laugh at the guys loading LP and paying for brass all the time.

Zombie Steve · 10-08-2012, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

I agree, Trade all that large pistol crap for SP and double your stash. Then laugh at the guys loading LP and paying for brass all the time.

Sinner.

fredj338 · 10-08-2012, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

I agree, Trade all that large pistol crap for SP and double your stash. Then laugh at the guys loading LP and paying for brass all the time.

I haven't bought 45acp brass in maybe 15yrs? It lasts almost forever & I pick up at least what I shoot every weekend @ the local IDPA matches.

I give my SP 45acp brass away to those poor lost souls that don't know better. My mom always told me to be kind to those mentally challenged.

Kentguy · 10-08-2012, 11:27

Buckeye Glocks,

I have run into this problem as well. I have a post, a page or two back about SP/LP .45 primer pockets and Fred's advice; "So if you are worried about making PF, I would bump the powder charge 1/10gr to account for that." is right on the money, it works just fine if you want to play around with them.

I do think you'd be better off listening to his other piece of advice (I did)... "Better way is to trade off the bastard sp brass for proper LP 45acp."

Colorado4Wheel · 10-08-2012, 13:47

Your right. A lot of mentally challenged .45 shooters.

sellersm · 10-08-2012, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

Your right. A lot of mentally challenged .45 shooters.

Hey, I resemble that remark!!

I wish they'd standardize on a primer size... one less thing to do in a conversion! Call me a lazy American.

shotgunred · 10-08-2012, 16:38

Being able to cast your own bullets and using small pistol primers has me seriously considering my first 1911.

DoctaGlockta · 10-08-2012, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgunred

Being able to cast your own bullets and using small pistol primers has me seriously considering my first 1911.

I have always assumed you were a 1911 kind of guy.

shotgunred · 10-08-2012, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctaGlockta

I have always assumed you were a 1911 kind of guy.

No i am a fantastic plastic sort of guy. 4 glocks and 3 ar's.

fredj338 · 10-08-2012, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

Your right. A lot of mentally challenged .45 shooters.

Yeah, yeah, 9mm is what my grand daughter will shoot, shes only 2, but she'll be ready in another 4-5yrs.

Hoser · 10-08-2012, 16:58

I like the small primer 45 ACP brass. One less flavor of primer to buy.

Then again, I re-barreled my 1911s in 45 ACP to 45 GAP. Everyone I know gives me that brass for free.

Zombie Steve · 10-08-2012, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

Your right. A lot of mentally challenged .45 shooters.

Shut up, Squeaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoser

I like the small primer 45 ACP brass. One less flavor of primer to buy.

Only if you shoot wet noodle small primer cartridges to begin with. For really super macho he-men like myself, it means I'd have to buy different primers.

El_Ron1 · 10-08-2012, 18:05

A .45 ACP case with a small primer comes from the same place that the reloader of said case is headed to:

Keoking · 10-08-2012, 18:27

I just force a LP into the SP pocket.

firefighter4215 · 10-08-2012, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keoking

I just force a LP into the SP pocket.

This sounds like a great solution!

GWG19 · 10-09-2012, 07:56

The nincompoop who commited the sacrilege on the Holy 45ACP by putting a small pistol primer pocket in a 45ACP case should be tared and feather, have his micrometers smashed and finger nails removed.

Buckeye Glocks · 10-09-2012, 09:19

I did not realize the depth of loathing for the SP .45! I guess I am not picky. So, any of you that want to get rid of your SP .45 brass - send me a PM and we can make arrangements to alleviate you of that scourge. Who knows maybe a few LP .45 will sneak into the mix.

F106 Fan · 10-09-2012, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye Glocks

I did not realize the depth of loathing for the SP .45! I guess I am not picky. So, any of you that want to get rid of your SP .45 brass - send me a PM and we can make arrangements to alleviate you of that scourge. Who knows maybe a few LP .45 will sneak into the mix.

The loathing is caused by real problems for reloaders! These cases are dangerous!

On a 550, if a SP case sneaks in, it is possible to almost seat a large primer. It will dangle out of the case and jam up the shell plate. The only way to remove it is to decap the case again. And this extra decapping double charges the case at station two! This is a serious issue for the unwarry. Yes, I know, just remove the charged case before the second decapping and replace it after priming another case and before rotating the shell plate.

On a 650, the dangling primer won't jam up the shell plate and the case can be easily removed. The only potential problem is being overexuberant in seating the primer and detonating, not only the primer under the case, but the entire chain of primers back up through the tube. I am not saying that I have ever even heard of this event occuring in just this way but there is a video of the results of at least one chain fire on a 650:

Dillon Primer Detonation - YouTube

At least on the 550, only one primer will detonate.

On the 1050, the SP case jams up the machine at the primer swaging station. The ratchet mechanism won't allow the operator to back out and some intervention is required. There is also a possibility that the press didn't completely stroke the powder measure depending on how the operator intervenes.

On the RCBS Green Machine, the primer station is directly under the powder measure. An exploding primer will probably not cause a huge issue but the BATF was concerned enough to write me a threatening letter about their interest in future events. After I blew up a primer on this press, I immediately ordered a 1050.

It's easy enough to sit back an giggle about the debate over SP vs LP but the SP brass poses a significant hazard. Sure, you can try to separate your brass. Yes, you can try to pick up only YOUR brass. But, in the end, you will inevitably pick up some SP cases and you WILL miss them when you sort. If you sort... I don't sort my cases; I don't even look at them.

At the moment, I have about 5000 empty .45 cases. How many do you suppose are SP? How many passes will it take to catch them all?

Richard

SARDG · 10-09-2012, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

...there is a video of the results of at least one chain fire on a 650:

Richard

It's obvious he had 'issues' - but I cannot see how leaving off the ejector wire can cause that. His explanation doesn't seem plausible.

F106 Fan · 10-09-2012, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARDG

It's obvious he had 'issues' - but I cannot see how leaving off the ejector wire can cause that. His explanation doesn't seem plausible.

He talks about the case feeder mechanism jamming an empty case up against a loaded case that shouldn't be there. He suggests that this pushed the shell plate out of alignment enough to detonate a primer.

Beats me! I don't know if this is possible or not. But there is no question about the chain fire. It's pretty impressive!

I have popped a couple of LP primers trying to seat them in a SP case and I can't say it won't happen again. The only saving grace is that I do my .45 loading on a 1050 so the press jams up when the case hits the swaging station.

The only opportunities for a primer incident with the 650, as I run it, comes from .223 and 9mm crimped cases. Those have nothing to do with LP vs SP.

I may just buy a caliber conversion for the 1050. That would solve the .223 problem forever. We aren't shooting the 9mm very much so it just isn't a problem.

Richard