[JuneyBooney]

The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?

[12131]

Need stats.

[Rabbi]

People who say such things probably have not been a lot of places. I understand some people dont care about culture(other cultures) society, cities, whatever isnt their happy little world....

But, some of the nicest, wealthiest, most cultured, most intersting, and flat out fun places are pretty liberal. Austin, Seattle and San Francisco come to mind. Hell, the whole State of California is simply a wonderful and amazing place. New England is awesome, Orgeon, Washington State...stunning.

[JuneyBooney]

Originally Posted by Rabbi

People who say such things probably have not been a lot of places. I understand some people dont care about culture(other cultures) society, cities, whatever isnt their happy little world....

But, some of the nicest, wealthiest, most cultured, most intersting, and flat out fun places are pretty liberal. Austin, Seattle and San Francisco come to mind. Hell, the whole State of California is simply a wonderful and amazing place. New England is awesome, Orgeon, Washington State...stunning.

I am talking about crime, Rabbi. One of the most beautiful states in the Us is Virginia. But we do have some "bad places". Californey is a beautiful state but the people are not so pretty..not like tv shows...I hate overdeveloped areas in all countries. Too much trash etc.

[fwm]

Originally Posted by Rabbi

People who say such things probably have not been a lot of places. I understand some people dont care about culture(other cultures) society, cities, whatever isnt their happy little world....

But, some of the nicest, wealthiest, most cultured, most intersting, and flat out fun places are pretty liberal. Austin, Seattle and San Francisco come to mind. Hell, the whole State of California is simply a wonderful and amazing place. New England is awesome, Orgeon, Washington State...stunning.

Pretty and livable are two different things. The worst two weeks I ever had was a week in San Fran. Didn't like WA, except the climb to Mt Rainiers' glacier.

Been and lived in enough places that I don't go anywhere unarmed any more, so that eliminates both East and West Coast liberal states as well as the Second East Coast, Chicago. I have friends that come down from Chicago occasionally and they were horrified when I pointed out everybody in my residence for the get together was armed, except for them

(The 'Ruling' politicians concerns about me carrying a gun tell me all I need to know about what they think of me, and who to stay away from.)

[CAcop]

Originally Posted by fwm

Pretty and livable are two different things. The worst two weeks I ever had was a week in San Fran. Didn't like WA, except the climb to Mt Rainiers' glacier.

Been and lived in enough places that I don't go anywhere unarmed any more, so that eliminates both East and West Coast liberal states as well as the Second East Coast, Chicago. I have friends that come down from Chicago occasionally and they were horrified when I pointed out everybody in my residence for the get together was armed, except for them

(The 'Ruling' politicians concerns about me carrying a gun tell me all I need to know about what they think of me, and who to stay away from.)

SF is a hard place to live or visit for very long unless you have a lot more money than the average person. I would not live there unless my gross income was over $300,000.

The rest of the state gets better as you get further from LA or SF. The Sierras and their foothills are amazing this time of year. All the tourists go to Yosemite and Tahoe in the summer. The fall is perfect time. Due to my wife being in school for a lot of our marriage it has been a long time since we have gone up there this time of year. I hope to get up there in the fall one of these years before the oldest kid hits grade school. Even places like Monterey or Santa Cruz are nice this time of year even though they are pretty close to the sucky parts of CA.

As for Washington I think it is a pretty nice place. I would live closer to the OR side of the state though. Much prettier and less people. The Seattle area just seems like a mess to me. Their gun laws are very good considering CA is next door and transplants have damaged OR. NV looks like it is going downhill faster than OR and WA these days. I think it is because Sacto and even SF are pretty close to Reno. Not to mention LV is just 4 hours away from LA. That is pretty much a day trip.

[NEOH212]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?

I don't have stats but my personal experience reflects this for the most part.

Youngstown Ohio, controlled by Liberal Democrats and is one big (insert bad word here) hole!

[Pawcatch@aol.co]

www.disastercenter.com/crime/macrime.htm

Massachusetts seems to have a few high crime areas,but still lower than average crime rates.

[KalashniKEV]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

Do you guys agree?

Not at all.

Crime is a problem that can be managed. It depends on a lot of factors.

What you COULD say is that the more developed an area is, the more services are provided, the more liberal the constituents tend to be.

[mikeflys1]

Yea lemme tell you, New England is rough.

[JuneyBooney]

Originally Posted by mikeflys1

Yea lemme tell you, New England is rough.

If you have a liberal state it will be higher crime than a conservative state. Look at Maryland vs Virginia. I won't get into the race issue but that could be argued as well. Which parts of "New England" are you speaking?

[kylenewman]

I was in Dennis Mass a few months ago which is liberal central and I couldn't enjoy myself as I was continuously dodging gun fire. It was a public beach and there were even minorities

[Dennis in MA]

Originally Posted by kylenewman

I was in Dennis Mass a few months ago which is liberal central and I couldn't enjoy myself as I was continuously dodging gun fire. It was a public beach and there were even minorities

Hey. I'm Dennis in MA! Lol. (I'm actually in Harwich right now. Lol)


I'll tell you the real difference. Conservative states want all the consevative people to live ther, making fewer and fewer truly conservative states.

Liberal states export people to neighboring conservative states to set up beachheads and change voting preferences.

Their plan is long term and works. And all of you who say, "move out of those liberal places" are only doing our cause more harm by your protectionist practices.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

If you have a liberal state it will be higher crime than a conservative state.

This statement irritated me enough that I actually decided to go count.

I looked at 2008's FBI UCR* statistics for violent crime (rates of violent crime per 100,000 people). I then compared against the list of states whose electoral votes went to Obama in 2008.

Your statement is wrong. Only 21 states are both "conservative" (went to McCain) and have crime rates lower than the national average.

Here's the complete list, divided into 4 categories.

States that voted Republican in 2008 AND have higher crime rates than the national average:

Alaska 654.4
Arizona 478.6
Arkansas 516.4
Georgia 496.1
Louisiana 658.4
Missouri 505.2
Oklahoma 539.7
South Carolina 726.2
Tennessee 721.6
Texas 508.2

States that voted Republican in 2008 AND have lower crime rates than the national average:

Alabama 465.7
Idaho 239.3
Kansas 415.1
Kentucky 306.6
Mississippi 328.7
Montana 302.0
Nebraska 323.3
North Dakota 200.5
South Dakota 300.6
Utah 225.6
West Virginia 300.4
Wyoming 245.5

States that voted Democratic in 2008 AND have higher crime rates than the national average:

California 503.8
Delaware 708.6
Florida 688.9
Illinois 560.0
Maryland 628.2
Michigan 522.2
Nevada 727.5
New Mexico 670.6
North Carolina 486.6

States that voted Democratic in 2008 AND have lower crime rates than the national average:

Colorado 344.1
Connecticut 306.7
Hawaii 272.5
Indiana 375.5
Iowa 298.2
Maine 119.4
Massachusetts 466.2
Minnesota 200.0
New Hampshire 166.0
New Jersey 326.1
New York 401.8
Ohio 385.1
Oregon 265.0
Pennsylvania 417.0
Rhode Island 252.8
Vermont 140.8
Virginia 258.1
Washington 332.1
Wisconsin 276.9


Notice that the largest group is the group of states that lean left AND have low crime rates.


(*UCR statistics are not available for Illinois or Minnesota in 2008. I looked at the state's published statistics instead. Illinois' crime rate is higher than the average by about 20%, and Minnesota's is lower by about 50%. Both went Democrat in the 2008 election.)

[8-Ball]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?

Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.

[series1811]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.

That's been my experience. I worked in Baltimore, Miami, Dallas, and New Orleans. In every one of them, crime was out of control, but in many of the smaller, more rural areas, life was nice.

The big difference I saw in living in liberal areas was that they taxed the bejesus out of you for everything, and regulated everything to death (just outside of Annapolis, MD, where I lived for five years, they actually checked to make sure you were putting out recyclables in the bin, and would reportedly fine you if you didn't put any in).

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by series1811

That's been my experience. I worked in Baltimore, Miami, Dallas, and New Orleans. In every one of them, crime was out of control

Selection bias. You were a federal agent (I assume, based on the screen name) and you saw lots of crime. But big cities also have lots of people in them, and most of those people are never involved in a crime.

[series1811]

Originally Posted by devildog2067

Selection bias. You were a federal agent (I assume, based on the screen name) and you saw lots of crime. But big cities also have lots of people in them, and most of those people are never involved in a crime.

Of course they're not. But, that doesn't change the fact that all four of those cities had extremely high murder rates and crime rates.

Baltimore was the worst. I actually saw two people shot and killed, while on surveillance, in incidents that had nothing to do with what we were doing. If you sat anywhere long enough, you would see a serious crime. New Orleans wasn't much better.

And, nothing happened to people who got arrested in Baltimore. It was as close to anarchy as I think a city could get (although guys I know who worked Detroit, too, said it was actually worse than Baltimore).

And, cities don't get much more liberal than Baltimore.

But, I also worked in the suburbs of these cities, too. And, they weren't nearly as bad (in fact, it was funny that many of the larger drug dealers lived in the suburbs, but dealt their dope in the cities). We all commuted to work.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by series1811

Of course they're not. But, that doesn't change the fact that all four of those cities had extremely high murder rates and crime rates.

They do, although they're not at the top of the rankings by any means. Miami and Baltimore are quite high (according to the 2010 FBI UCR numbers) but Memphis, St. Louis, Oakland, and Detroit are higher.

Oddly (I was surprised, at any rate, when I looked) New Orleans and Dallas have fairly low crime rates compared to the worst offenders, with rates roughly half of Memphis. Still substantially higher than the national average, of course, but I was surprised to see they were that low.

[ilgunguygt]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.

Yep. Here in IL we have 102 counties. 99 of them vote conservative. Our last gubernatorial election the republican won 99 of 102 counties, but lost the election. Cook county is in the othere 3. Wanna guess where the highest crime is?

[JuneyBooney]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.

I agree on that to a degree. In Va the Northern Va part could be considered to be liberal a..wipes...More money though and more crime..wait..that is what I said in my op... But most of the state is good.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?

Nope. Not at all.

It's hard to do a mathematically rigorous correlation, because it's hard to quantify the degree of "liberalness" of a state, so I'll just grab a few examples.

Alaska, which is pretty much as "conservative" as states get by the definition I think you meant, had a per-capita violent crime rate 40% higher than the national average. New Hampshire's crime rate is 65% lower than the national average, and it's a very liberal state.

But then you look at another pair of states: Wyoming's crime rate is almost 50% lower than the national average, and California's is 8% higher.

Your statement isn't even "oversimplified" it's just wrong.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

If you have a liberal state it will be higher crime than a conservative state.

As I already pointed out in this thread, that is simply not true.

Originally Posted by devildog2067

Alaska, which is pretty much as "conservative" as states get by the definition I think you meant, had a per-capita violent crime rate 40% higher than the national average. New Hampshire's crime rate is 65% lower than the national average, and it's a very liberal state.

[FFR Spyder GT]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?

I live in Arkansas which is liberal, has a St. Gov't that is controlled by Dems and is fairly crime free.

Sure, we have a few "rough" areas but a lot of the state has very little crime.

Plus since our state is controlled by Democrats we have a balanced budget and have not had the problems that some states have had.

White trash trailer park rednecks vote (R) in the Presidential Election but live their lives very liberal.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT

I live in Arkansas which is liberal, has a St. Gov't that is controlled by Dems and is fairly crime free.

Sure, we have a few "rough" areas but a lot of the state has very little crime.

Actually, the violent crime rate in Arkansas is 10% higher than the national average.