GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-04-2012, 23:32   #1
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,374
The real difference between liberal states and Conservative States

The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 23:36   #2
12131
CLM Number 101
Monkeyboy
 
12131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: God's Country (Texas)
Posts: 11,021
Need stats.
__________________
NRA Lifer, GOA Lifer, SAF Lifer
Commie libs, criminals, and sheeple love gun control. It's easier to blame inanimate objects than the killers themselves.
Andrew Cuomo & Michael Bloomberg = Friends of criminals

Politicians and judges who voted for, and supported, Obamacare are traitors to the country!
Con, the first 3 letters in Congress.
UN, the first 2 letters in UNnecessary.
12131 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 23:50   #3
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,845


People who say such things probably have not been a lot of places. I understand some people dont care about culture(other cultures) society, cities, whatever isnt their happy little world....

But, some of the nicest, wealthiest, most cultured, most intersting, and flat out fun places are pretty liberal. Austin, Seattle and San Francisco come to mind. Hell, the whole State of California is simply a wonderful and amazing place. New England is awesome, Orgeon, Washington State...stunning.
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
Rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 00:45   #4
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
People who say such things probably have not been a lot of places. I understand some people dont care about culture(other cultures) society, cities, whatever isnt their happy little world....

But, some of the nicest, wealthiest, most cultured, most intersting, and flat out fun places are pretty liberal. Austin, Seattle and San Francisco come to mind. Hell, the whole State of California is simply a wonderful and amazing place. New England is awesome, Orgeon, Washington State...stunning.
I am talking about crime, Rabbi. One of the most beautiful states in the Us is Virginia. But we do have some "bad places". Californey is a beautiful state but the people are not so pretty..not like tv shows...I hate overdeveloped areas in all countries. Too much trash etc.
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 13:22   #5
fwm
Senior Member
 
fwm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Central US
Posts: 2,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
People who say such things probably have not been a lot of places. I understand some people dont care about culture(other cultures) society, cities, whatever isnt their happy little world....

But, some of the nicest, wealthiest, most cultured, most intersting, and flat out fun places are pretty liberal. Austin, Seattle and San Francisco come to mind. Hell, the whole State of California is simply a wonderful and amazing place. New England is awesome, Orgeon, Washington State...stunning.
Pretty and livable are two different things. The worst two weeks I ever had was a week in San Fran. Didn't like WA, except the climb to Mt Rainiers' glacier.

Been and lived in enough places that I don't go anywhere unarmed any more, so that eliminates both East and West Coast liberal states as well as the Second East Coast, Chicago. I have friends that come down from Chicago occasionally and they were horrified when I pointed out everybody in my residence for the get together was armed, except for them

(The 'Ruling' politicians concerns about me carrying a gun tell me all I need to know about what they think of me, and who to stay away from.)
__________________
fwm
fwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 13:40   #6
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwm View Post
Pretty and livable are two different things. The worst two weeks I ever had was a week in San Fran. Didn't like WA, except the climb to Mt Rainiers' glacier.

Been and lived in enough places that I don't go anywhere unarmed any more, so that eliminates both East and West Coast liberal states as well as the Second East Coast, Chicago. I have friends that come down from Chicago occasionally and they were horrified when I pointed out everybody in my residence for the get together was armed, except for them

(The 'Ruling' politicians concerns about me carrying a gun tell me all I need to know about what they think of me, and who to stay away from.)
SF is a hard place to live or visit for very long unless you have a lot more money than the average person. I would not live there unless my gross income was over $300,000.

The rest of the state gets better as you get further from LA or SF. The Sierras and their foothills are amazing this time of year. All the tourists go to Yosemite and Tahoe in the summer. The fall is perfect time. Due to my wife being in school for a lot of our marriage it has been a long time since we have gone up there this time of year. I hope to get up there in the fall one of these years before the oldest kid hits grade school. Even places like Monterey or Santa Cruz are nice this time of year even though they are pretty close to the sucky parts of CA.

As for Washington I think it is a pretty nice place. I would live closer to the OR side of the state though. Much prettier and less people. The Seattle area just seems like a mess to me. Their gun laws are very good considering CA is next door and transplants have damaged OR. NV looks like it is going downhill faster than OR and WA these days. I think it is because Sacto and even SF are pretty close to Reno. Not to mention LV is just 4 hours away from LA. That is pretty much a day trip.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 02:12   #7
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 8,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?
I don't have stats but my personal experience reflects this for the most part.

Youngstown Ohio, controlled by Liberal Democrats and is one big (insert bad word here) hole!
__________________
When we do hit it we hit it out of the park and send it over to China as quickly as possible to cheapen it and sell it.
NEOH212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 05:49   #8
Pawcatch@aol.co
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: West Georgia
Posts: 1,172
www.disastercenter.com/crime/macrime.htm

Massachusetts seems to have a few high crime areas,but still lower than average crime rates.

Last edited by Pawcatch@aol.co; 10-05-2012 at 05:51..
Pawcatch@aol.co is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 07:34   #9
KalashniKEV
Senior Member
 
KalashniKEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NoVA
Posts: 4,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
Do you guys agree?
Not at all.

Crime is a problem that can be managed. It depends on a lot of factors.

What you COULD say is that the more developed an area is, the more services are provided, the more liberal the constituents tend to be.
KalashniKEV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 08:37   #10
mikeflys1
Pastafarian
 
mikeflys1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,715
Yea lemme tell you, New England is rough.











mikeflys1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 22:53   #11
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeflys1 View Post
Yea lemme tell you, New England is rough.











If you have a liberal state it will be higher crime than a conservative state. Look at Maryland vs Virginia. I won't get into the race issue but that could be argued as well. Which parts of "New England" are you speaking?
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 22:58   #12
kiole
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,121
I was in Dennis Mass a few months ago which is liberal central and I couldn't enjoy myself as I was continuously dodging gun fire. It was a public beach and there were even minorities

The Okie Corral

Last edited by kiole; 10-05-2012 at 22:59..
kiole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 10:49   #13
Dennis in MA
Get off my lawn
 
Dennis in MA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 52,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylenewman View Post
I was in Dennis Mass a few months ago which is liberal central and I couldn't enjoy myself as I was continuously dodging gun fire. It was a public beach and there were even minorities

The Okie Corral
Hey. I'm Dennis in MA! Lol. (I'm actually in Harwich right now. Lol)


I'll tell you the real difference. Conservative states want all the consevative people to live ther, making fewer and fewer truly conservative states.

Liberal states export people to neighboring conservative states to set up beachheads and change voting preferences.

Their plan is long term and works. And all of you who say, "move out of those liberal places" are only doing our cause more harm by your protectionist practices.
__________________
The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
Dennis in MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 11:53   #14
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
If you have a liberal state it will be higher crime than a conservative state.
This statement irritated me enough that I actually decided to go count.

I looked at 2008's FBI UCR* statistics for violent crime (rates of violent crime per 100,000 people). I then compared against the list of states whose electoral votes went to Obama in 2008.

Your statement is wrong. Only 21 states are both "conservative" (went to McCain) and have crime rates lower than the national average.

Here's the complete list, divided into 4 categories.

States that voted Republican in 2008 AND have higher crime rates than the national average:

Alaska 654.4
Arizona 478.6
Arkansas 516.4
Georgia 496.1
Louisiana 658.4
Missouri 505.2
Oklahoma 539.7
South Carolina 726.2
Tennessee 721.6
Texas 508.2

States that voted Republican in 2008 AND have lower crime rates than the national average:

Alabama 465.7
Idaho 239.3
Kansas 415.1
Kentucky 306.6
Mississippi 328.7
Montana 302.0
Nebraska 323.3
North Dakota 200.5
South Dakota 300.6
Utah 225.6
West Virginia 300.4
Wyoming 245.5

States that voted Democratic in 2008 AND have higher crime rates than the national average:

California 503.8
Delaware 708.6
Florida 688.9
Illinois 560.0
Maryland 628.2
Michigan 522.2
Nevada 727.5
New Mexico 670.6
North Carolina 486.6

States that voted Democratic in 2008 AND have lower crime rates than the national average:

Colorado 344.1
Connecticut 306.7
Hawaii 272.5
Indiana 375.5
Iowa 298.2
Maine 119.4
Massachusetts 466.2
Minnesota 200.0
New Hampshire 166.0
New Jersey 326.1
New York 401.8
Ohio 385.1
Oregon 265.0
Pennsylvania 417.0
Rhode Island 252.8
Vermont 140.8
Virginia 258.1
Washington 332.1
Wisconsin 276.9


Notice that the largest group is the group of states that lean left AND have low crime rates.


(*UCR statistics are not available for Illinois or Minnesota in 2008. I looked at the state's published statistics instead. Illinois' crime rate is higher than the average by about 20%, and Minnesota's is lower by about 50%. Both went Democrat in the 2008 election.)
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 08:51   #15
8-Ball
Drifting Cowboy
 
8-Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 5,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?
Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.
__________________
R.I.P

23skidoo (Jeff), CJLandry (Chad), Silent_Runner (Gloria), & GioaJack

Taken too soon.
8-Ball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 08:56   #16
series1811
CLM Number
Enforcerator.
 
series1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Retired, but not expired.
Posts: 14,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-Ball View Post
Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.
That's been my experience. I worked in Baltimore, Miami, Dallas, and New Orleans. In every one of them, crime was out of control, but in many of the smaller, more rural areas, life was nice.

The big difference I saw in living in liberal areas was that they taxed the bejesus out of you for everything, and regulated everything to death (just outside of Annapolis, MD, where I lived for five years, they actually checked to make sure you were putting out recyclables in the bin, and would reportedly fine you if you didn't put any in).
__________________
I sure miss the country I grew up in.
series1811 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:07   #17
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
That's been my experience. I worked in Baltimore, Miami, Dallas, and New Orleans. In every one of them, crime was out of control
Selection bias. You were a federal agent (I assume, based on the screen name) and you saw lots of crime. But big cities also have lots of people in them, and most of those people are never involved in a crime.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:17   #18
series1811
CLM Number
Enforcerator.
 
series1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Retired, but not expired.
Posts: 14,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Selection bias. You were a federal agent (I assume, based on the screen name) and you saw lots of crime. But big cities also have lots of people in them, and most of those people are never involved in a crime.
Of course they're not. But, that doesn't change the fact that all four of those cities had extremely high murder rates and crime rates.

Baltimore was the worst. I actually saw two people shot and killed, while on surveillance, in incidents that had nothing to do with what we were doing. If you sat anywhere long enough, you would see a serious crime. New Orleans wasn't much better.

And, nothing happened to people who got arrested in Baltimore. It was as close to anarchy as I think a city could get (although guys I know who worked Detroit, too, said it was actually worse than Baltimore).

And, cities don't get much more liberal than Baltimore.

But, I also worked in the suburbs of these cities, too. And, they weren't nearly as bad (in fact, it was funny that many of the larger drug dealers lived in the suburbs, but dealt their dope in the cities). We all commuted to work.
__________________
I sure miss the country I grew up in.

Last edited by series1811; 10-05-2012 at 09:20..
series1811 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:25   #19
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
Of course they're not. But, that doesn't change the fact that all four of those cities had extremely high murder rates and crime rates.
They do, although they're not at the top of the rankings by any means. Miami and Baltimore are quite high (according to the 2010 FBI UCR numbers) but Memphis, St. Louis, Oakland, and Detroit are higher.

Oddly (I was surprised, at any rate, when I looked) New Orleans and Dallas have fairly low crime rates compared to the worst offenders, with rates roughly half of Memphis. Still substantially higher than the national average, of course, but I was surprised to see they were that low.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 10:39   #20
ilgunguygt
Enslaved in IL
 
ilgunguygt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Illinois
Posts: 4,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-Ball View Post
Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.
Yep. Here in IL we have 102 counties. 99 of them vote conservative. Our last gubernatorial election the republican won 99 of 102 counties, but lost the election. Cook county is in the othere 3. Wanna guess where the highest crime is?
__________________
***RIP Okie, GT will never be the same without you Mr Mayor!***
ilgunguygt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 22:56   #21
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-Ball View Post
Not at all.

The most populated cities in the states are full of crime and liberals. It's actually the opposite of your post, in my state at least, whereas the majority of the state itself has low crime and is full of conservative ways, but the liberal s--t hole cities are more populated, thus they have more voters.
I agree on that to a degree. In Va the Northern Va part could be considered to be liberal a..wipes...More money though and more crime..wait..that is what I said in my op... But most of the state is good.
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:06   #22
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?
Nope. Not at all.

It's hard to do a mathematically rigorous correlation, because it's hard to quantify the degree of "liberalness" of a state, so I'll just grab a few examples.

Alaska, which is pretty much as "conservative" as states get by the definition I think you meant, had a per-capita violent crime rate 40% higher than the national average. New Hampshire's crime rate is 65% lower than the national average, and it's a very liberal state.

But then you look at another pair of states: Wyoming's crime rate is almost 50% lower than the national average, and California's is 8% higher.

Your statement isn't even "oversimplified" it's just wrong.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 09:14   #23
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
If you have a liberal state it will be higher crime than a conservative state.
As I already pointed out in this thread, that is simply not true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Alaska, which is pretty much as "conservative" as states get by the definition I think you meant, had a per-capita violent crime rate 40% higher than the national average. New Hampshire's crime rate is 65% lower than the national average, and it's a very liberal state.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:18   #24
FFR Spyder GT
Ex-Gunslinger
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hog Jaw, Arkansas
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
The real difference between Conservative States and Liberal States in America is this.....In a Liberal State the state is crime laden and there are few nice places. In a Conservative State there are many nice places and a few bad places.

Do you guys agree?


I live in Arkansas which is liberal, has a St. Gov't that is controlled by Dems and is fairly crime free.

Sure, we have a few "rough" areas but a lot of the state has very little crime.

Plus since our state is controlled by Democrats we have a balanced budget and have not had the problems that some states have had.

White trash trailer park rednecks vote (R) in the Presidential Election but live their lives very liberal.
FFR Spyder GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:26   #25
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT View Post
I live in Arkansas which is liberal, has a St. Gov't that is controlled by Dems and is fairly crime free.

Sure, we have a few "rough" areas but a lot of the state has very little crime.
Actually, the violent crime rate in Arkansas is 10% higher than the national average.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,295
413 Members
882 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42