Home Defense Question...what would you do if....

Chris Brines · 10-04-2012, 20:51

So...I was talking with a like minded friend on Facebook. I've been meeting like an unbelievable amount of VERY pro gun people on FB lately, so much so that I haven't even been in gun forums much. But anyway, me and these folks were sitting around talking about how much we just don't give a damn what the anti gunners say about us having guns to protect ourselves with, or what laws they get passed. There are bad people in this world, and if it is between us and them, or them and a member of our family, they're going on a one way trip....to wherever land.

And I told the lady about a close call I had in the city I live in (not the only one), and said I live in a major city and that's just how it is in the big city, things happen, you have to watch your back, and be prepared because life around here is anything but predictable. Then I said but it doesn't matter..because bad things can happen literally any time, any place, regardless of location, population size, or gun laws.

So she told me that a few years ago, one of her girlfriends who lives down the street (in a VERY small town, and rural area), was in the bathroom of her house or something, and her little girl was in the living room. Well out of nowhere some piece of garbage in human form busts through her backdoor, grabs her small daughter, and takes off running out of the house with her. Well....momma had a shotgun.

She ran out after the fool and told him if he didn't put her girl down he was going bye bye. Needless to say, the guy was convinced. He put her down.

I told her at first...ya know....if a shotgun is all you have, and a kidnapper (pedophile obviously, and would be child rapist/killer) has your child....do what you gotta do, but truthfully a shotgun might not be the best weapon for that scenario, because of the danger of stray pellets hitting the little girl if she had to shoot. I told her a revolver or semi might be best.

Then I stopped and was like...ya know, on 2nd thought...maybe a shotgun would be PERFECT for a scenario like that....if you shoot at their legs, made SURE you aim low. Then you'd DEFINITELY hit the fool, and not endanger the child.

So we pondered on that for a bit and I decided this would be the best place to get a general consensus on the best weapon for that type of nightmare scenario. Because I don't know about you guys, but I have at a pretty close reach a shotgun, a 9mm and maybe even a 357 magnum. But maybe not..who knows?

Anyway....I'd like to hear what most people say about this, because that is an interesting question, that obviously I pray nobody has to experience, but it might be helpful to just prepare for the worst, yet hope for the best.

bac1023 · 10-04-2012, 21:41

I'm not sure how you could shoot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.

Especially while you both were running

JaPes · 10-05-2012, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bac1023

I'm not sure how you could shot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.

^^^This.

If a kidnapper had my son/daughter/niece/nephew in their arms and I had a shotgun trained on the scumbag, I'm making empty threats to shoot. Convincing threats, but empty.

My goal is to slow down the kidnapper enough so that they do not disappear from my sight. Slow down the escape. Give me a few precious seconds to get out of reactive tunnel vision mode, and into assessment mode.

AK_Stick · 10-05-2012, 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by bac1023

I'm not sure how you could shot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaPes

^^^This.

If a kidnapper had my son/daughter/niece/nephew in their arms and I had a shotgun trained on the scumbag, I'm making empty threats to shoot. Convincing threats, but empty.

My goal is to slow down the kidnapper enough so that they do not disappear from my sight. Slow down the escape. Give me a few precious seconds to get out of reactive tunnel vision mode, and into assessment mode.

I'm pretty sure he has knees/feet.....

I'd also much rather have my kid go to the hospital to remove a errant pellet or two, than the morgue because he got away.

Bren · 10-06-2012, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bac1023

I'm not sure how you could shoot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.

I don't see where that would be very difficult, as either a choice or a skill.

Not sure exactly what you think the child has to lose, but her chances of surviving are better if she gets shot than if he gets away with her. How often do you see stranger-kidnapped children rescued hours or days later, compared to not?

The_Gun_Guru · 10-06-2012, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bren

I don't see where that would be very difficult, as either a choice or a skill.

Not sure exactly what you think the child has to lose, but her chances of surviving are better if she gets shot than if he gets away with her. How often do you see stranger-kidnapped children rescued hours or days later, compared to not?

The only problem with that is what if you shoot your child in a vital area such as an artery? If you live in BFE, then you just killed your child, and that would be worse than a stranger killing her!

Taking the shot is an absolute last resort......PERIOD!!!!!!

TGG

boomhower · 10-06-2012, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Gun_Guru

The only problem with that is what if you shoot your child in a vital area such as an artery? If you live in BFE, then you just killed your child, and that would be worse than a stranger killing her!

Taking the shot is an absolute last resort......PERIOD!!!!!!

TGG

I disagree. A relatively quick death from a bullet wound beats days of rape and torture to a slow death. I know what I would pick for my child. No it's not a comfortable shot but not every choice is a fun one.

Wurger · 10-06-2012, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Gun_Guru

The only problem with that is what if you shoot your child in a vital area such as an artery? If you live in BFE, then you just killed your child, and that would be worse than a stranger killing her!

Taking the shot is an absolute last resort......PERIOD!!!!!!

TGG

So letting the perp rape, torture and kill your child would make you feel better than taking the chance of stopping her attacker with a low probability of injuring/killing her in the attempt?

That is the kind of thing I can see someone jumping off a bridge for in the aftermath, if he had just let them go because he didn't have the ideal shot.

Aceman · 11-04-2012, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by bac1023

I'm not sure how you could shoot the BG with anything while he was carrying a child.

Especially while you both were running

Which is why as soon as I got line of sight I would stop, swap for a slug, and aim.

mortpes · 10-04-2012, 22:03

I use 12 GA 2 and 3/4 inch with flitecontrol wad 00 buck. It does keep the 9 pellets somewhat close. No I would not take the shot if very far away.

hwm · 10-04-2012, 22:08

If he was running carrying the child you would have a clear shot on his to his back

**janice6** · 10-04-2012, 22:09

Rarely will you have the luxury of choosing where on the person, to shoot an individual, when and if you/they are moving.

jph02 · 10-05-2012, 14:42

The question is not really would you shoot, it's what weapon is best, regardless of availability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by janice6

Rarely will you have the luxury of choosing where on the person, to shoot an individual, when and if you/they are moving.

Agreed. That said, I think the shotgun is best simply on the basis of increasing hit probability in this scenario. On the other hand, a handgun with a good self-defense round stands a better chance of actually stopping the bad guy, but requires the shooter to have the presence of mind to place his/her shots rather than just fire wildly at the fleeing felon.

AK_Stick · 10-05-2012, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jph02

The question is not really would you shoot, it's what weapon is best, regardless of availability.
Agreed. That said, I think the shotgun is best simply on the basis of increasing hit probability in this scenario. On the other hand, a handgun with a good self-defense round stands a better chance of actually stopping the bad guy, but requires the shooter to have the presence of mind to place his/her shots rather than just fire wildly at the fleeing felon.

Unless I'm mis-reading that, there is no way a handgun "stands a better chance of stopping the bad guy" than a shotgun.

The problem, in this scenario, is that if you shoot them in the back, you stand a very good chance of penetrating the chest of the perp, and wounding the child being carried.

jadickson · 10-06-2012, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

...

The problem, in this scenario, is that if you shoot them in the back, you stand a very good chance of penetrating the chest of the perp, and wounding the child being carried.

I was wondering if anyone else was thinking this. Shooting the bad guy in the back is a terrible idea in this circumstance.

Run. A parent running down a bad guy who is kidnapping their child could outrun Usain Bolt, especially since the bad guy is weighed down by the child.

If you can get close enough to shoot the legs or another safe target, do it.

1-2man · 10-06-2012, 19:43

I'm with the "club him over the head with the shotgun" camp.

AlexHassin · 10-04-2012, 22:14

well the girls quite small by the sounds of it. so in all likelihood you could shoot his knee. which i would love to do because then i could say. " tell all your friends in jail ' i use to be a child abductor. then i took a shotgun blast to the knee"

Chris Brines · 10-04-2012, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexHassin

well the girls quite small by the sounds of it. so in all likelihood you could shoot his knee. which i would love to do because then i could say. " tell all your friends in jail ' i use to be a child abductor. then i took a shotgun blast to the knee"

Now THAT...would bring me a sense of joy in the midst of a terrifying moment.

***12131*** · 10-04-2012, 22:23

The lady grabbed what she had at the time, and the scum complied. End of story. Who am I to question a good outcome?

Clutch Cargo · 10-04-2012, 23:00

I can never answer a "what would you do" question as I have to be in a situation to fully comprehend, then respond.

Chris Brines · 10-04-2012, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Cargo

I can never answer a "what would you do" question as I have to be in a situation to fully comprehend, then respond.

Yeah, I mean of course. My main reason for this post would be for those with multiple years of experience with guns to tell me if a shotgun would be a better weapon than a pistol or rifle to aim at a guy who had your child in their arms. Main concern being safety of the child. Believe me, if all I had was a shotgun, that wouldn't matter, but it's just something I wondered.

Either one of two things...a shotgun would be PERFECT for that scenario, or it would be the worst choice. I'd say the one who said they wouldn't take the shot if they were at a distance (I'm thinking 20 yards would be the max), but then again I probably wouldn't do it with a pistol either.

And to the one who suggested shooting them in the back I don't think that would be a great idea. Buckshot or a typical pistol round would likely go through them and hit the kid.

Andrewsky · 10-04-2012, 23:32

BEER · 10-05-2012, 04:24

i don't know about the lady in your story bu i'm pretty sure im in decent enough shape to out sprint a guy trying to run while carrying a struggling child.

glockfanbob · 10-06-2012, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEER

i don't know about the lady in your story bu i'm pretty sure im in decent enough shape to out sprint a guy trying to run while carrying a struggling child.

Unfortunately it seems that many in the gun community don't give a rats behind about physical conditioning, rather making sure that they have enough ammo (10k+ rounds) for a SHTF moment.

KalashniKEV · 10-06-2012, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z71bill

?? What??

A shotgun is a poor choice for HD?

Yup.

I just said it.

It's true too.

Shotguns (even autos) are extremely manipulation intensive weapons to field. It takes a lot of practice and disciplined training regimen to effectively wield a shotgun under stress.

They are limited in capacity, and unless you're one of the very few folks that runs an SBS in a home defense role, long and unwieldy in close quarters.

The strength of the shotgun is its versatility in being able to swap loads, but outside of buck, slug, and non lethal the others don't come into play (specialized breaching rounds are not necessary, in my opinion).

Most untrained people believe that the pattern is much larger than it really is, mitigating the need to properly aim. They also never seem to understand the distances involved in CQB. Often times in shouldering their 20 inch guns with mag extensions they've covered a significant percentage of that distance!

There are also recoil management issues for smaller/ lighter users.

Unless you desire a nonlethal option in your escalation of force, or you plan on breaching in and around your own home, ther are much better options.

Oh, but the one thing they are good for in home defense- "If'n you rack a dang ol pump shotgun in yer house..."