Best SD 9mm short barrel round

Bilbo Bagins · 09-20-2012, 08:13

I seem to be carrying pocket guns more and more, and right now I have Ruger LC9 and I will be getting a Kahr CM9 in the near future.

That said anyone know what self defense round is good out of a short 3" barreled 9mm. I like to avoid +p+ and +p because of the wear and tear on those lightweight guns.

***hotpig*** · 09-20-2012, 09:16

We are living in the good old days so far as the number and type defensive ammo choices available.

The big three all have suitable options for the pocket pistol.Starting with the first from Winchester the T-Series offers a large window of velocities that it will work under.In other words the 147gr offering will work in your pistols. So will the 124+P, you will not really be losing anything except velocity faster compared to the 147. For the purest the design does not have the color but still retains the sharp talons made famous by the Black Talon.

Federal HST again suitable in all bullet weights. Originally designed to replace their Hi Shock ammo but morphed into the restricted sale Tactical Line descendant of Eldorado's Star Fire that is pretty tough and offers robust expansion.

Speer Gold Dot SB the last of the big three to offer something for the pocket pistol. It retains everything good about the regular GB only tuned to work from SB pistols.

If you try several of these you guns will actually decide what is best for them.

plouffedaddy · 09-20-2012, 10:46

Here's some chrono data from my Shield:

Hornady 147gr TAP: average fps-910. ft/lbs energy-270
Federal 124gr HST: average fps-1029. ft/lbs energy-291
Federal 124gr HST +p: average fps-1070. ft/lbs energy-320
Winchester 115gr Ranger: average fps 1020. ft/lbs energy-266

I highly recommend the above poster's website for buying defensive ammo (well all ammo really...). Good prices and service.

M 7 · 09-20-2012, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotpig

The big three all have suitable options for the pocket pistol.Starting with the first from Winchester the T-Series offers a large window of velocities that it will work under.In other words the 147gr offering will work in your pistols.

hotpig,

Would you happen to know what the lower velocity limit for expansion in the RA9T is?

***hotpig*** · 09-20-2012, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by M 7

hotpig,

Would you happen to know what the lower velocity limit for expansion in the RA9T is?

Officially 890fps

M 7 · 09-20-2012, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotpig

Officially 890fps

Thanks!

SCmasterblaster · 09-27-2012, 20:31

pushes a 115gr JHP bullet at 1400 FPS out of my G17.

Kalmah · 09-20-2012, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

I seem to be carrying pocket guns more and more, and right now I have Ruger LC9 and I will be getting a Kahr CM9 in the near future.

That said anyone know what self defense round is good out of a short 3" barreled 9mm. I like to avoid +p+ and +p because of the wear and tear on those lightweight guns.

Unless you plan on using it for practice ammo, an occasional diet of +P isn't going to cause any excessive wear and tear on either of those pistols. A few boxes to test reliability, and then a few more rounds downrange a few times a year to burn through old carry ammo so it can be replaced with fresh won't hurt a thing.

I've been using +P like that in my PM9 for years.

FatBoy · 09-20-2012, 13:06

I would go w/ Speer short barrel Gold Dot 124+p, if you are adverse to that, try the 147 HST(if you can find it).

SCmasterblaster · 09-20-2012, 18:59

Try the CorBon ammo in 9mm +p. Their 115gr load does 1200 FPS in the LC9.

WiskyT · 09-20-2012, 19:20

Here is some LC9 chrono data. I use the 147 Ranger T series since it runs in the design velocity and I know it will penetrate.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1344889

Warp · 10-01-2012, 18:10

I really like 124gr +P Speer Gold Dots for my Glock 26. Currently it is loaded with RA9TA and I have also carried RA9T, and Federal HST. Pick one.

I mostly prefer the Gold Dots though

SCmasterblaster · 10-01-2012, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

I really like 124gr +P Speer Gold Dots for my Glock 26. Currently it is loaded with RA9TA and I have also carried RA9T, and Federal HST. Pick one.

I mostly prefer the Gold Dots though

I never saw a difference between the 115gr and 124gr loads. I mean, it us only a nine-grain difference - 8%. Now if the debate was between 115gr and 147gr, then there would be grounds for debate - a 32gr difference is far bigger than 9gr.

Warp · 10-01-2012, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

I never saw a difference between the 115gr and 124gr loads.

What did you do with them for the comparison?

SCmasterblaster · 10-02-2012, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

What did you do with them for the comparison?

I don't understand your question. I was just saying that there is not much difference between the 115gr and 124gr JHPs - only 9 grains. The velocity difference is likely less than 100 FPS.

Warp · 10-02-2012, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

I don't understand your question. I was just saying that there is not much difference between the 115gr and 124gr JHPs - only 9 grains. The velocity difference is likely less than 100 FPS.

Terminal performance isn't measured in grains.

Also, we are talking "short barrels" here. 4.5" barrels need not apply.

kaech · 10-01-2012, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

What did you do with them for the comparison?

^^he used mathematics... LoLz

Kentguy · 10-02-2012, 11:45

Bilbo Bagins,

Lots of good choices mentioned here and all would certainly provide you with more than adequate self protection out of a small(er) pistol.

I carry a 9mm G26 (3.43" barrel) just a bit larger than the ones you mentioned. I have been and still do carry the Hornady 124g XTP HP loads. I have clocked these at 1,058.2 fps, nice round easy to control and over the past few years have practiced enough with this round that I am familiar with it and comfortable carrying it for my EDC round.

boomhower · 10-02-2012, 17:26

A little correction. Stopped by my local gun shop and no HST's to be found. Ended up with 147gr Gold Dots. Not my first choice but I feel more than comfortable with them. Only good side effect is it's the same brand as my duty round and it will be serving BUG duty.

Warp · 10-02-2012, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomhower

A little correction. Stopped by my local gun shop and no HST's to be found. Ended up with 147gr Gold Dots. Not my first choice but I feel more than comfortable with them. Only good side effect is it's the same brand as my duty round and it will be serving BUG duty.

They should serve you well.

Tiro Fijo · 10-06-2012, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomhower

...Ended up with 147gr Gold Dots. Not my first choice but I feel more than comfortable with them. Only good side effect is it's the same brand as my duty round and it will be serving BUG duty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

They should serve you well.

Before you guys get too smitten with the 147 gr. Gold Dot you might want to take a gander at a thread on another forum by LEO's disparaging the 147 gr. Gold Dot based on street results. It seems as if sometimes we forget that street results always trump shooting gel and water jugs:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/t...22&whichpage=2

WiskyT · 10-06-2012, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo

Before you guys get too smitten with the 147 gr. Gold Dot you might want to take a gander at a thread on another forum by LEO's disparaging the 147 gr. Gold Dot based on street results. It seems as if sometimes we forget that street results always trump shooting gel and water jugs:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/t...22&whichpage=2

It seems you believe every fantasy posted on an internet forum as long as it fits your preconceived visions.

Here, here is LEO information from me. I am a retired LEO. I have been involved in 65 shoot outs. Real shoot outs, the old West type. I hunted man in every corner of the continent and most of Europe as a specially deputized US Marshal. I was so good that the USMS issued me Marshal Dillon's star form their museum and authorized me to wear it on fugitive man-hunting operations.

I have 73 one-shot stops out of 68 shootings and they all involved 147JHP's. First we used the OSM loads and when I finished my career we finshed with a special 158 JSP GD load developed by Speer to not exceed 800FPS. The reason we used this load is because of the miserable failures with Federal's 9BPPLE. Yes, BPPLE! It had an extra P just so it could outrun the BPLE if it were fired at the same time by the second biggest gun-fighting agency in the world, the feared ISP!! We wanted our bullets to get there first so we would get the credit.

The ISP, like all highway patrol agencies, was involved in 75 shootings of hardened felons a week at that time (it's gone up since then). Everyone knew they were good gunfighters. We wanted to make sure that our expertise was recognized and wanted out bullets to be the ones that the canoe makers would b e pulling out of the stiffs.

All of this is true. We had 145 cops in my unit killed when their 9BPPLE rounds failed before we swtiched to the 158JSPGD round.

Tiro Fijo · 10-06-2012, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiskyT

,,,Here, here is LEO information from me. I am a retired LEO. I have been involved in 65 shoot outs. Real shoot outs, the old West type. I hunted man in every corner of the continent and most of Europe as a specially deputized US Marshal. I was so good that the USMS issued me Marshal Dillon's star form their museum and authorized me to wear it on fugitive man-hunting operations.

I have 73 one-shot stops out of 68 shootings and they all involved 147JHP's. First we used the OSM loads and when I finished my career we finshed with a special 158 JSP GD load developed by Speer to not exceed 800FPS. The reason we used this load is because of the miserable failures with Federal's 9BPPLE. Yes, BPPLE! It had an extra P just so it could outrun the BPLE if it were fired at the same time by the second biggest gun-fighting agency in the world, the feared ISP!! We wanted our bullets to get there first so we would get the credit.

The ISP, like all highway patrol agencies, was involved in 75 shootings of hardened felons a week at that time (it's gone up since then). Everyone knew they were good gunfighters. We wanted to make sure that our expertise was recognized and wanted out bullets to be the ones that the canoe makers would b e pulling out of the stiffs.

All of this is true. We had 145 cops in my unit killed when their 9BPPLE rounds failed before we swtiched to the 158JSPGD round.

Are you on drugs?

boomhower · 10-06-2012, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo

Before you guys get too smitten with the 147 gr. Gold Dot you might want to take a gander at a thread on another forum by LEO's disparaging the 147 gr. Gold Dot based on street results. It seems as if sometimes we forget that street results always trump shooting gel and water jugs:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/t...22&whichpage=2

Like I said they aren't my first choice but that link is not very far up ladder from useless. Almost all of them complaining are saying to go up to the heavier caliber, that's hardly helpful. Most of those complaining are just complaining with no actual incidents to back it up. Would I have rather had HST, yep. Would I stick with these out of a 3" barrel over the 124gr? Yep. (I had 147 and 115 to pick from, no way in hell I using 115 out of a 3" barrel.)