Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2012, 12:59   #1
PaulMason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,143
Why most Doomsday preppers will die

There are a lot of videos out there about
Why most Doomsday preppers will die

Listen to the first one and see if you want to watch the others. Don't dismiss him too much. The first video he is a bit wack but calms down in the second one and gives some good ideas.










Last edited by PaulMason; 09-09-2012 at 13:09..
PaulMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 13:50   #2
Kevin108
HADOKEN!
 
Kevin108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 7,813


Can you boil down what's said?
__________________
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
_____- Ben Franklin |
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Kevin108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 15:05   #3
pugman
Senior Member
 
pugman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 6,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
Can you boil down what's said?
Video 1 and 2’s The quick and dirty version

The video author clearly says “he isn’t ready.”

While protrayed in a very poor manner he is encouraging people to form their own “ good gangs” or get “numbers” which is a valid point. My house might be stocked with 5 years of food, 50 guns, 100,000 rounds of ammo etc but unless my wife and I are going to stand guard 24 hours a day eventually a “bad gang” might come a knockin.

Quote “If your not rollin’ with a klan of at least thirty people you don’t have anything...five peoples is not going to cut it when doomsday comes...”

He also makes a valid second point. There isn’t a show on TV which shows how a group of people are preparing – probably because a group would never expose themselves to this type of media attention if they are serious.

However, some of the quotes are priceless

”yes, I would go out and buy some dry canned goods whatever you call that stuff from them what do you call them Muslim people...Quakers..or whatever you call them people”

His over reaching points are valid: Networking, Secrecy in your preps and the fact if the SHTF roaming gangs will form...and they will come lookin for stuff

However, I’m not sure if his point is you should be forming these gangs or he is subvertly saying he could form a gang “arm 60 people” and then come knockin?

Another Quote ” you may have a six month supply of food but you have nutin’ when my posse come for you...its our supply”

”Don’t think people aren’t noticing you stockpiling stuff in your garage.”

”Assemble baby...even though I ain’t ready I have guns and I have family”

Objectively, this guy is giving good advice and at the very same time strikes me as the type of person I should be afraid of.
__________________
Now when asked when I think things will change I answer "The next time Thomas (aka the fed) robs Peter (aka the 53%) to pay Paul (aka the 47%) and Peter pulls a gun...things will change"

Last edited by pugman; 09-09-2012 at 15:08..
pugman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 15:33   #4
Seale Team
Member
 
Seale Team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugman View Post
t
Objectively, this guy is giving good advice and at the very same time strikes me as the type of person I should be afraid of.
Odd, I was thinking I hope he doesnt fall on those Oakleys when his clan came calling. I do like my Oakleys.
Seale Team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 15:38   #5
LASTRESORT20
LongTerm-Guy
 
LASTRESORT20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 8,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seale Team View Post
Odd, I was thinking I hope he doesnt fall on those Oakleys when his clan came calling. I do like my Oakleys.

Agree...I like mines too!
LASTRESORT20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 16:05   #6
PaulMason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugman View Post
Objectively, this guy is giving good advice and at the very same time strikes me as the type of person I should be afraid of.
You got it. I posted them so I could come back later today to watch them. My gut tells me he is a good guy living in the south with a large family in a rural area.

He makes good points about how few are prepared at all and when desperate they will do desperate things. And there are a lot of them.

Other things:
You need a lot of people or your own gang to survive. Going it alone won't work for too long.

It won't be safe anywhere - people will flee the cities.

No matter how many guns or bullets you have, it you have to use them it is too late for you.

People will find you as you as you go about your business on your farm.

Better to have an underground shelter then a home. People will check out a home.

He would send peaceable people to your area to find out your resources.

He would not go quietly away when he and his gang was hungry with their ribs showing and they saw you with your beans and other food.

I think what was good about it was what a non prepper saw other people. It also should give others pause for how they see thing happening and how others would act. I think he was recommending the 'gray man concept' but didn't know it.
PaulMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 18:10   #7
jdavionic
NRA Member
 
jdavionic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,316
In an obnoxious way, he makes some good points. However the key point about considering gangs is a given to most serious "preppers". Going beyond that, his remedy is flawed.

Gangs of predators often turn on each other in normal times, let alone desperate times. I know a person who is our local "gang expert", now heads up the gang task force in our county. This guy talks like someone that has no idea what a gang is really like.

He does raise a good point that folks should consider. If you plan on making it with just you and your family & close friends, how will you evade or defend against roaming gangs. If you are part of a larger group, do you have a plan for dealing with a larger-scale group attack.
__________________
- JD

"No matter how bad it gets, if you're still alive it's just another bad day."
jdavionic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 19:23   #8
emt1581
Curious Member
 
emt1581's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 28,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavionic View Post

He does raise a good point that folks should consider. If you plan on making it with just you and your family & close friends, how will you evade or defend against roaming gangs. If you are part of a larger group, do you have a plan for dealing with a larger-scale group attack.
This thread sort of puts the prepper between a rock and a hard place...well IMO at least.

I mean the first rule of prep-club is we don't talk about prep-club in our everyday lives. Then at the same time, according to the replies here, if you don't have a "gang/group/big family/etc." ready to roll in an organized and efficient fashion before/when the SHTF you are screwed against the other thugs/scum of society when they and their large pack come a knockin.

The "gang" has long been my biggest fear...well that and kidnapping. Both in good times and bad.

However, after working with the true gang members/leaders, at least in my area, day in and day out for years....I do not fear the smaller block/corner gangs that love to hold up students, rob old ladies and shoot each other. They are quite stupid and have very poor planning skills even on a street smart level.

But larger and more organized gangs pose a very real threat in cities as well as more remote areas when the SHTF. I've tried bringing this up before over the years in different forums on GT and EVERY time it either turns into a "no matter what you are dead" thread or a "you are paranoid and have nothing to fear" thread. Neither stance is really helpful unless it serves to force us to acknowledge reality. If that is really the case shouldn't we all take a few notes from suicide bomber maybe as a last ditch effort to protect the loved ones we will be leaving behind?

Anyone willing to discuss actual tactics? Maybe a wife and kid or two can be trained and utilized effectively? Where does technology come into play (i.e. solar powered game cams and such)?

It would be refreshing if, for once, a valid discussion can take place on how to specifically combat, defeat and survive against the roving pack of thugs that are organized and only seeking to rob, rape, and kill anyone they can.

-Emt1581
emt1581 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 21:42   #9
Electrikkoolaid
Grape flavored!
 
Electrikkoolaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugman View Post
Another Quote ” you may have a six month supply of food but you have nutin’ when my posse come for you...its our supply”

”Assemble baby...even though I ain’t ready I have guns and I have family”
I wonder if he should pause to think that people who are stockpiling food, have guns as well.

Or does he think he's the big bad grasshopper that is going to just walk in, terrorize the ants, and take what he wants? (ala Pixar's Bug's Life)

The vocabulary shows his intellect, and without smarts, "force" is not the only criteria that matters.
__________________
We need to stop asking "who will pay for healthcare" and start asking "why does it cost so much?"
Electrikkoolaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 14:13   #10
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 5,154


One is silly, He keeps saying we "gangs". maybe he really means cohesive prepper communities for mutual defense. Gangs are not the answer as they function on fear and lack a solid moral compass. When your moral compass says that theft and murder are OK, it is tough to think it will last as they steal then murder each other.
racerford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 18:12   #11
bdcochran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,657
Why most preppers will die

Ok. I don't need three videos to say:

1. most preppers will die because they fail to see the world from the other guy's perspective. This is why in the martial arts that you learn to take blows as much as you learn to give them.

2. most preppers fail to understand that the opposition will go up the learning curve as fast as the preppers do after shtf. The implicit assumption in "my rural situation is best" or "bugging out is best" is that everyone else in the world will be unable to change and adapt. Oh, no, the hordes will be the real world equivalent of Pacmen. Don't count on it.

3. most preppers fail to understand that their "victories" will come at night or through stealth. Very few people will learn how to shoot at night, fight at night, track animals or track people now. Oh, no. They will wait until it is forced upon them after shtf.

4. most preppers already understand that the most difficult challenge will be to get together in a group for survival. The problem is that when things are good, people just don't exchange ideas, learn skills together or practice. There is no way around it. However, they also understand that you ambush your opposition and take out the head and things become more even in dealing with a gang.
bdcochran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 19:00   #12
FireForged
Millenium #3936
 
FireForged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Rebel South
Posts: 4,621
The whole "gang" mentality is a very realistic threat as people who have not will gang up on the people who have.

This is why I am so glad that I do not live in an urban area.
__________________
"I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan
FireForged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 21:27   #13
RMTactical
CLM Number
www.AR15pro.net
 
RMTactical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Behind an AR-15
Posts: 29,887


This is one of the nice things about being part of the LDS community and having a big family. Historically, we have banded together in times of adversity. Entire congregations (wards) will band together to ensure security for each other and we tend to be much more prepared than the avg person.

It's a network we already have built in. Other religious types might have a similar resource.

It's not perfect, but it is better than what most people have.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Due to inflation, my $.02 no longer matters.

Last edited by RMTactical; 09-09-2012 at 21:29..
RMTactical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 22:25   #14
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,975
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
While not very eloquent, or well spoken, he did have several good points.



You need numbers, and you need a plan. Because people are watching.


Otherwise, you're just a warehouse custodian for someone else cache
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 22:48   #15
bdcochran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,657
For EMT

1. Do you have a plan with your wife and child(ren) of what they do when they are away from the home when shtf?

I was widowed. I had my kid licensed as a ham radio operator. He kept his bugout pack locked in the principal's office. So, EMT what plan do you have for your child.
I warned my kid that if we had a riot when he was at school not to trust the school administrators and to do what seemed prudent. So when we had a riot in Los Angeles, he took off from school and had his plan.

2. If your "plan" is simply for everyone to run home no matter what, then you have no plan. 99% of your community will have the same plan - and the streets, school areas and freeways will be overwhelmed by people driving crazy.

3. You start with a simple plan. That puts you up the food chain and distinguishes you from the rest of the herd.

4. This is how you deal with the gang problem. I am 8 blocks from one gang and 1 mile from another. I have already figured out the routes of attack and defense. Have you done so for your neighborhood?

5. I liked the comment by one member that he was rural. My observations are: 1. there are highways and freeways to most rural areas (hint - the road from your front door to the city is also the road from the city to your front door). 2. Yep, there will always be people thinking that the locals will block the roads and that will stop people. No, it doesn't stop motorcyclists, flankers, and hungry people. 3. If the Soviets could isolate the Ukraine and kill 6,000,000 people by taking their food in the 1930s, it is a hell of a lot easier to take on and attack people with the use of cell phones, radios, off road vehicles, and motorcycles (hint - there are some gangs that are motorcycle gangs).

Oh, I will concede that being rural gives you a few days. I am urban with 13,000 souls to the square mile. No one else on the block has been in the military. The guy behind me was a Captain in the Korean Army in South Vietnam. Of course, he has been retired for a few years.
bdcochran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 05:34   #16
emt1581
Curious Member
 
emt1581's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Penn's Woods
Posts: 28,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
1. Do you have a plan with your wife and child(ren) of what they do when they are away from the home when shtf?

I was widowed. I had my kid licensed as a ham radio operator. He kept his bugout pack locked in the principal's office. So, EMT what plan do you have for your child.
I warned my kid that if we had a riot when he was at school not to trust the school administrators and to do what seemed prudent. So when we had a riot in Los Angeles, he took off from school and had his plan.

2. If your "plan" is simply for everyone to run home no matter what, then you have no plan. 99% of your community will have the same plan - and the streets, school areas and freeways will be overwhelmed by people driving crazy.

3. You start with a simple plan. That puts you up the food chain and distinguishes you from the rest of the herd.

4. This is how you deal with the gang problem. I am 8 blocks from one gang and 1 mile from another. I have already figured out the routes of attack and defense. Have you done so for your neighborhood?

5. I liked the comment by one member that he was rural. My observations are: 1. there are highways and freeways to most rural areas (hint - the road from your front door to the city is also the road from the city to your front door). 2. Yep, there will always be people thinking that the locals will block the roads and that will stop people. No, it doesn't stop motorcyclists, flankers, and hungry people. 3. If the Soviets could isolate the Ukraine and kill 6,000,000 people by taking their food in the 1930s, it is a hell of a lot easier to take on and attack people with the use of cell phones, radios, off road vehicles, and motorcycles (hint - there are some gangs that are motorcycle gangs).

Oh, I will concede that being rural gives you a few days. I am urban with 13,000 souls to the square mile. No one else on the block has been in the military. The guy behind me was a Captain in the Korean Army in South Vietnam. Of course, he has been retired for a few years.
I see what you are saying about a plan but it seems like most of your plan deals with acknowledging the routes of escape and/or attack...no?

What about staying hidden or attacking/defending?

Or is the plan still going to be to just "not be there" as is the common cop-out with most S&P threads that deal with gang/gov. forces?

Mind you I'm not being sarcastic or poking fun at you but that really is what most say. And sometimes you just can't avoid the fight or stay well hidden.

AK talked about a force multiplier. I think an AR vs. a lowly bolt .22lr MIGHT be an example. But for the average nuclear family, what would be others?

Thanks

-Emt1581
emt1581 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 00:34   #17
Unistat
Senior Member
 
Unistat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE Michigan, near Detroit
Posts: 1,407
Ugh, I had a huge post typed, but I lost it due to an errant click.

To sum up:

1. Yes, you need a group you can trust. Lone Wolf just doesn't cut it. See Selco's account of his experience in the Balkans War. If you don't have a group, get on that. I can not stress it enough, don't forget it as you read my critique below. You need a group, not only for raiders, but because no man is an island. Diversity of skills is highly desired, many hands make light the work, and iron sharpens iron, and all that.

2. Nope, most will not die. Preppers are more organized into groups than he thinks. There are more of us than, I think, we realize. Then there are the people who don't call themselves "survivalists" or "preppers" that have training and resources I envy. They have the mindset to use them too.

3. Urban thug gangs aren't that good. He overestimates their ability to attack a fortified position while under fire. Preppers do discus raiders from time to time you know. Most of these thugs won't make it more than a few miles out of the city. Unfortunately, that is the zone I live and work in.

4. In a real Fall, by the time they realize the Gov isn't going to truck food into the city, they will be thinned out and weakened. Then before they get to the outer suburbs, we in the danger zone will have had our shot. They don't have it together enough to get out early. The Japanese were afraid to invade for a reason. I doubt some thug insurrectionists are going to make it that far.

5. He's unorganized so he expects us to be unorganized. Really it's typical of criminal thought. Boy, crooks sure are surprised when their robbery "victim" pulls a gun and fights back.

6. I'm more worried about real organised groups. There is a reason the Los Zetas are so successful. They are ex-military and know what they are doing. I'm concerned about OMCs and rogue/raider preppers. Yes, I view Lone Wolfers with a wary eye.

7. I don't currently prep for TEOTWAWKI. I prep for smaller stuff like natural disasters, riots, and Great Depressions. Eventually I'll get there, but for now I prep for what I can as I can. That said, in the event of a "Fall of Rome" situation, I believe that preppers are the ones that will hold the community and culture together long enough to climb out of it. If enough people prep, it can mitigate the depth and duration of a fall.
__________________
There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the Moon Landing and those that don't.

Last edited by Unistat; 09-10-2012 at 00:49..
Unistat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 00:44   #18
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,975
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unistat View Post

3. Urban thug gangs aren't that good. He overestimates their ability to attack a fortified position while under fire. Preppers do discus raiders from time to time you know.


You know what a fortified position really is?


The place you die during a deliberate attack.



I mean, just look at the stunning success that was the maginot line.



While fortifying your house/property has some value against raiders who have given little though to it, and mostly are striking solely on a whim, if they take even a small amount of time to plan it out, and have a modicum of common sense, your chances are virtually nil to live through the engagement.



Unless you've got a good network of people, and I'm talking 8-15 able bodied shooters, you're not really going to hold off much of anything. And by shooters, I don't mean your wife and kids who you gave a gun to in a pinch. I mean people who know how to fight a weapon.

If the SHTF, you're not handing your kid/wife a PSL/Nagant/whatever rifle you want, and honestly going to see them be an effective shooter. What you're handing them is a death sentence.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 01:19   #19
Unistat
Senior Member
 
Unistat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE Michigan, near Detroit
Posts: 1,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
You know what a fortified position really is?


The place you die during a deliberate attack.



I mean, just look at the stunning success that was the maginot line.



While fortifying your house/property has some value against raiders who have given little though to it, and mostly are striking solely on a whim, if they take even a small amount of time to plan it out, and have a modicum of common sense, your chances are virtually nil to live through the engagement.



Unless you've got a good network of people, and I'm talking 8-15 able bodied shooters, you're not really going to hold off much of anything. And by shooters, I don't mean your wife and kids who you gave a gun to in a pinch. I mean people who know how to fight a weapon.

If the SHTF, you're not handing your kid/wife a PSL/Nagant/whatever rifle you want, and honestly going to see them be an effective shooter. What you're handing them is a death sentence.
Did you read my point #1? You need a group, no question. I call 8-15 a good start. I would really like to have a lot more that that.

I agree (as I said in my above post above,) trying to Lone Wolf it is a non-starter. Why are you busting my balls for agreeing with you?

To your other point, most urban gang members do not have "a modicum of common sense." I see them every day at work. The vast majority are as dumb as a box of rocks.

Dangerous, to be sure, but time and time again they fair poorly when they are out of their element and facing an armed opponent.

And what makes you think my wife doesn't know how to fight?

The Maginot Line was a failure of updating strategic and tactical thinking in the light of what was capable, offensively, with new technology. Thus, we take maneuver warfare for granted now and no modern army is comfortable defending a fixed position with no counter-strike force. Of course, the French didn't seem to learn that particular lesson (re: Dien-Bien-Phu.)

I think part of the necessity having a large enough group is in having the man power to counter attack. Medieval castles had sally-ports, for instance. By our nature, preppers are going to be tied to a location. Even an underground bunker will be given away in a long term Fall by it's cultivated crops. You need enough people to patrol and react to aggression.
__________________
There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the Moon Landing and those that don't.

Last edited by Unistat; 09-10-2012 at 01:28..
Unistat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 21:03   #20
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,975
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unistat View Post
Did you read my point #1? You need a group, no question. I call 8-15 a good start. I would really like to have a lot more that that.

I agree (as I said in my above post above,) trying to Lone Wolf it is a non-starter. Why are you busting my balls for agreeing with you?

To your other point, most urban gang members do not have "a modicum of common sense." I see them every day at work. The vast majority are as dumb as a box of rocks.

Dangerous, to be sure, but time and time again they fair poorly when they are out of their element and facing an armed opponent.

And what makes you think my wife doesn't know how to fight?

The Maginot Line was a failure of updating strategic and tactical thinking in the light of what was capable, offensively, with new technology. Thus, we take maneuver warfare for granted now and no modern army is comfortable defending a fixed position with no counter-strike force. Of course, the French didn't seem to learn that particular lesson (re: Dien-Bien-Phu.)

I think part of the necessity having a large enough group is in having the man power to counter attack. Medieval castles had sally-ports, for instance. By our nature, preppers are going to be tied to a location. Even an underground bunker will be given away in a long term Fall by it's cultivated crops. You need enough people to patrol and react to aggression.

My post was not specifically directed at you but in general, save that one point.


Anytime a person uses the term "fortified position" it makes me laugh because A.) 99% of people, including preppers, do not have or understand what a true fortified position is, and B.) Have no means, and C.) generally no idea at how to defend such a position, even if they were to acquire one.


But my point, and intention was not to call you out, and I'm sorry if you took it that way.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:44.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 710
145 Members
565 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31