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Old 08-10-2012, 06:02   #1
21Glock
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Best 10mm powder, lowest pressure with highest velocity?

I've been reloading a long time for other handgun and rifle calibers, but have just started reloading for my Gen 4 20 10mm.
My recent loads were using AA # 7. I know it has a history of flattening primers, as it did with some of my loads.
I know some folks like AA# 9 and some like Longshot, Blue Dot, Power Pistol, etc.

I'm looking for the best overall powder for the 10mm with the lowest operating pressures with the highest possible velocities. There will be some trade offs, just wanting to reach a happy median.
Looking to get other opinions before I get my next batch of reloading supplies at the next gun show in a few weeks.

I'll be using bullet weights from 165gr. to 200gr. cast and jacketed.

Thanks!
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:22   #2
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From my reading, Longshot is held in highest regards. I plan on picking up a pound soon.
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:07   #3
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As far as pressure, I only have the manufacturers published data to go on, so that really doesn't factor into my choices. My hurdles for powder selection is accuracy, velocity potential, metering and finally cost.

I load 180gr jacketed. I have tried Longshot, Blue Dot, 2400, VV-N105 and #9 with these bullets.

I had gotten down to three powders for 10mm a while back (BD, #9 and N105). I now only buy Blue Dot and #9 in the large bottles. Likely, eventually I will be down to large bottles of #9. I always seem to come back to #9 in magnum velocities, it is such a dreamy powder.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:06   #4
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Originally Posted by WeeWilly View Post
As far as pressure, I only have the manufacturers published data to go on, so that really doesn't factor into my choices. My hurdles for powder selection is accuracy, velocity potential, metering and finally cost.

I load 180gr jacketed. I have tried Longshot, Blue Dot, 2400, VV-N105 and #9 with these bullets.

I had gotten down to three powders for 10mm a while back (BD, #9 and N105). I now only buy Blue Dot and #9 in the large bottles. Likely, eventually I will be down to large bottles of #9. I always seem to come back to #9 in magnum velocities, it is such a dreamy powder.
+1 for AA#9. Good velocity, accuracy, no pressure signs
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:53   #5
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Thanks for the input. I also didn't mention that I recently got a KKM 6" barrel for my Gen 4 20 as well, so I won't be shooting these loads in my stock barrel.
I'm trying minimize any smileys, pressure wise and still get high end speed.

I'm sort of leaning toward AA#9 or Longshot as well. I've heard some good things about the VitaV powders, but boy are they expensive!!
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:20   #6
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Thanks for the input. I also didn't mention that I recently got a KKM 6" barrel for my Gen 4 20 as well, so I won't be shooting these loads in my stock barrel.
I'm trying minimize any smileys, pressure wise and still get high end speed.

I'm sort of leaning toward AA#9 or Longshot as well. I've heard some good things about the VitaV powders, but boy are they expensive!!
I have a handful of KKM barrels and I think they make a really good product.

If your experience tracks mine, you will see a marked improvement in velocity potential with that longer barrel, especially with the slower powders.

On the smiley and case support thing, I am not certain this amounts to much. My experience seems to indicate that smiles are not as much a factor of where the ramp enters the chamber (at least in the later 10mm barrels) or the ultimate size of the chamber and more related to how the timing of the gun is affected in the upper reaches of pressure. That 6" barrel has to help with the unlock timing, so it likely will help keep smiles at bay while loading in the twilight zone.

What I am unsure about is the difference between a stock 6" hunting barrel and an aftermarket unit with tighter chamber and a steeper ramp and when smiles start showing up. I suspect there is some marginal difference, but in the realm of precision I load, have my doubts it is a first order concern.

In any case, for me, I have done my nuke loading and am now back to loads that top out somewhere in the 1250fps range with the stock barrel (with 180gr slugs); in that category, with the components I am using, smiles are not on the agenda if the gun is working right, so I find my KKM barrels ended up being nice paperweights.

Last edited by WeeWilly; 08-10-2012 at 10:39..
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Old 11-18-2012, 15:19   #7
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I have a handful of KKM barrels and I think they make a really good product.

If your experience tracks mine, you will see a marked improvement in velocity potential with that longer barrel, especially with the slower powders.

On the smiley and case support thing, I am not certain this amounts to much. My experience seems to indicate that smiles are not as much a factor of where the ramp enters the chamber (at least in the later 10mm barrels) or the ultimate size of the chamber and more related to how the timing of the gun is affected in the upper reaches of pressure. That 6" barrel has to help with the unlock timing, so it likely will help keep smiles at bay while loading in the twilight zone.

What I am unsure about is the difference between a stock 6" hunting barrel and an aftermarket unit with tighter chamber and a steeper ramp and when smiles start showing up. I suspect there is some marginal difference, but in the realm of precision I load, have my doubts it is a first order concern.

In any case, for me, I have done my nuke loading and am now back to loads that top out somewhere in the 1250fps range with the stock barrel (with 180gr slugs); in that category, with the components I am using, smiles are not on the agenda if the gun is working right, so I find my KKM barrels ended up being nice paperweights.
Got rid of my smileys on hot loads by getting rid of the Glock barrel. Happy aftermarket barrel camper.
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Old 08-10-2012, 13:11   #8
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...I'm sort of leaning toward AA#9 or Longshot as well. I've heard some good things about the VitaV powders, but boy are they expensive!!
The price you posted for local Longshot powder sounds pretty good.

I went into a local gunshop the other day and bought 3 - 1lb contains of powder (not VV's) and a brick of 209 primers. $161 + tax!

I love to support local guys and do feel for them with regard to the competitive disadvantage they have over the online guys, the nutty regulations they have to put up with, etc. , but holy cow! I think if I had to buy all my stuff local, I would likely stop reloading, just couldn't make it work fiscally speaking.

VV powders are some of the best I have tried in every application, but like buying local, it is just too much money. A normal Powder Valley invoice when I am buying Alliant, AA powders is normally $400, if I am going with VV it is $700. Ouch!

Last edited by WeeWilly; 08-10-2012 at 13:13..
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Old 08-10-2012, 14:36   #9
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My short answer is: BD and AA#9 for XTP's, to my Blue Dot 200gr HC loads in G20, and the stock barrel has seen 99.9% of all my use, and 'never one problem', and never had a smile in a Glock with OEM barrel... Ever. Very hot loads or not. I also find the OEM barrel extremely accurate at long range, for being a 'close up combat gun', and we shoot at play time out here on the ranch, at some really long distances.

Those G20 OEM barrels are good enough with hard cast or XTP's, for clean 100yd deer shots ! Can't get any sweeter than that. The AM barrels are fine for a tad more brass life, but I am not yet sold on them from my experiences with them. The OEM barrels have for the 14/15 years I been shooting Glocks, never gave issue with Hard Cast Bullets up to 200grs in 10mm, and as i said, very accurate at 'long range' with this set up. I only use Beartooth and Hunters Supply, for my HC bullet needs..

So, for me, Powder wise, BD and AA#9.


Hey, good shooting and have fun with your 10mm !










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Old 08-10-2012, 10:03   #10
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If you add cost to the decision vs. presure vs. velocity, I think it would be Blue Dot or Power Pistol. With the AA#9 you use so much more powder to get results with AA#7 doing a little more work with a little less for some bullet weights.

Blue Dot has worked very well across a broad spectrum of cartridges and bullet weights and shotgun shells. It remains my mainstay.

Recent purchases of LongShot and IMR 800X have tipped the scales at $30 + per pound.

800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.

I like LongShot in the 9x25Dillon cartridges but will start workups with 800X to compare.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:50   #11
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If you add cost to the decision vs. presure vs. velocity, I think it would be Blue Dot or Power Pistol. With the AA#9 you use so much more powder to get results with AA#7 doing a little more work with a little less for some bullet weights.

Blue Dot has worked very well across a broad spectrum of cartridges and bullet weights and shotgun shells. It remains my mainstay.

Recent purchases of LongShot and IMR 800X have tipped the scales at $30 + per pound.

800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.

I like LongShot in the 9x25Dillon cartridges but will start workups with 800X to compare.
The Reloaders Bench in Mt. Juilie, TN. has 1lb. of Longshot for about $20. I'll probably pick up some at the next gun show here in ATL area when they are there.
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Old 08-10-2012, 14:41   #12
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If you add cost to the decision vs. presure vs. velocity, I think it would be Blue Dot or Power Pistol. With the AA#9 you use so much more powder to get results with AA#7 doing a little more work with a little less for some bullet weights.

Blue Dot has worked very well across a broad spectrum of cartridges and bullet weights and shotgun shells. It remains my mainstay.

Recent purchases of LongShot and IMR 800X have tipped the scales at $30 + per pound.

800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.

I like LongShot in the 9x25Dillon cartridges but will start workups with 800X to compare.
I may get a chance to do load testing tomorrow a.m. and want to make up some test loads for my G20 tonight. I have a couple of lbs. of Blue Dot on my loading bench I use for my S&W 500 for practice rounds.
What do you recommend to be a good warm to hot load for a 165gr JHP using Blue Dot for my 10mm? I'll be using by new KKM 6" barrel. I was thinking of about 11-11.5 gr. of Blue Dot. My Gen 4 20 has their new dual spring RSA, it feels alot stiffer to rack that other stock RSAs.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:44   #13
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800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.
This is what I have found for absolute highest velocities with the 10mm, vs. Blue Dot and A#9. 800-X is king for 180 and 200gr. bullets, if you're not averse to weighing every charge. Otherwise, I defer to Longshot as the best all-around velocity/metering performance powder. I haven't tested against VV powders due to cost, time, desire. But, as mentioned, you will have to go "off book" to get those velocities with 800-X and Longshot, so be careful.

However, both Blue Dot and A#9 are great performing 10mm powders.

I use A#9 for SD loads since it is low flash at excellent 10mm velocities. A#9 will easily exceed the velocity performance envelope for expansion of 180gr. Gold Dots. So it's perfect to load for that application.

I use Blue Dot almost exclusively for my moderate range practice loads. You can't beat it for accuracy and economy.

One more thing to be aware of since no one else has mentioned it, most will recommend using only standard primers with these loads. My limited testing with magnum primers has always shown less pressure signs using standard primers and a few 10th's of a grain more powder than the same velocity achieved with a magnum primer. In some loads, magnum primers can really spike the pressures.

Good luck and be safe!
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Old 09-03-2012, 19:36   #14
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crap!
after getting some AA9, I found the small grains of it seep into places it shouldn't in my LEE not-so-perfect-powder-measure, making it bind up.
anybody else have this problem?
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Old 09-03-2012, 20:45   #15
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crap!
after getting some AA9, I found the small grains of it seep into places it shouldn't in my LEE not-so-perfect-powder-measure, making it bind up.
anybody else have this problem?
Bummer!

That is too bad because one of the reasons to get A9 is that it meters so well. I typically use an RCBS Uniflow. It is awesome through that. Less than +/- 1/10 grain variation in throws.

I hope you get it worked out. I am not familiar with the Lee setup so I unfortunately can't give any advice.
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Old 09-04-2012, 00:12   #16
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Yeah, sometimes it does that. Loosen the screw up a tiny bit and it will help. Also, Google "lapping Lee Perfect Powder measure". I haven't done it, but it sounds like a good fix. I just loosen the screw a bit and let it leak a bit. As it wears in you can tighten it up some. It will still throw an accurate charge.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:05   #17
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P.S. Speed is not the only determining factor...Accuracy and cleanliness also play into the mix, and again Blue Dot has delivered in this arena as well.
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Old 11-18-2012, 15:26   #18
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P.S. Speed is not the only determining factor...Accuracy and cleanliness also play into the mix, and again Blue Dot has delivered in this arena as well.

Yes....Blue Dot has worked well for me also.
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Old 08-10-2012, 15:49   #19
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I like the 11.2 grains Blue Dot loading for that weight, they should be very accurate. If you drive the JHP's too hard they will over expanded and some will shed parts of the petals or the jackets. If the jackets roll back too much then bullet's diameter effectiveness can suffer.

Best regards!
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Old 08-10-2012, 22:30   #20
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In 10mm, I have used Accurate 5, 7 & 9; Alliant Blue Dot; Hodgdon Longshot, and IMR "Hi-Skor" 800-X.

Accurate no. 9 best fits the description of lowest pressure and highest velocities as far as I can tell. Like WeeWilly mentioned, we don't have pressure testing equipment. What I do know is if you stick reasonably close to manufacturer data, you are going to get the best velocities for 165 gr + bullets with Accurate no. 9. Blue Dot is close behind. I can get a 200 grain XTP to 1200 fps in my 4.6" Glock barrel at 2 tenths less than book maxes with A9. Book data velocities for a 155 gr XTP @ 1425 is pretty sweet too.

Longshot is a good powder as well, but one must venture a good ways beyond book data to get velocities up to #9 performance. A lot of folks do, and they have good results. I have not pushed Longshot that far. 800-X and Longshot are closely matched. 800-X does not meter, so I find no reason to chose it over Longshot.

#9 groups very well with warm to hot charges too. It also meters superbly. The downside, as has been mentioned, is that each charge consumes much more powder relative to other 10mm powders. However, I have found it to be less expensive than Longshot or Vihta powders.
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