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Old 08-06-2012, 14:33   #1
Glock19Fan
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FMJ for Self Defense?

If you had to use FMJ and was forced to pick between 9mm and .45, what would you choose? From a Glock 19 and 5 inch barreled 1911. .45ACP on top and 9mm on bottom. Both WWB from 5 feet, and direction of travel was from the right.

Caliber Corner

I use Gold Dots, I just thought it would be interesting to show this test.
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Old 08-06-2012, 15:47   #2
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I'd go with the 9mm... Come on you guys... don't be a hater

My CCW is a G26 and in my night-stand is a G19, I like that caliber and I am very fimiliar with how it will work coming out of my pistols.

As far as FMJ is concerned, it would not be my round of choice in a self defense situation, however it will get the job done if pressed into service.

Alan
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:15   #3
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I'd go with the 9mm... Come on you guys... don't be a hater

My CCW is a G26 and in my night-stand is a G19, I like that caliber and I am very fimiliar with how it will work coming out of my pistols.

As far as FMJ is concerned, it would not be my round of choice in a self defense situation, however it will get the job done if pressed into service.

Alan
Well said.
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Old 08-06-2012, 16:00   #4
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Originally Posted by Glock19Fan View Post
If you had to use FMJ and was forced to pick between 9mm and .45, what would you choose? From a Glock 19 and 5 inch barreled 1911. .45ACP on top and 9mm on bottom. Both WWB from 5 feet, and direction of travel was from the right.

Caliber Corner

I use Gold Dots, I just thought it would be interesting to show this test.
G19Fan,

Where'd you find that test? Do you have a link for it?

As for your question, both 9mm and .45 FMJs will pass through a person or three and the pointed profile of the FMJ guarantees that either will slip through soft tissue with a minimum of damage.

According to the Schwartz bullet penetration model www.quantitativeammunitionselection.com , a 9mm 115 gr. JHP moving at 1155 fps will penetrate 26.3" of soft tissue and a .45 230 gr. FMJ moving at 835 fps will penetrate 25.1" of soft tissue.

For whatever slim margin it might have, I'll take the .45, thank you very much.
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Old 08-06-2012, 16:09   #5
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In a pinch/emergency when nothing else was available fmj is fine.

However, when I have a choice in the matter, I will always carry a good jhp over any fmj.
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Old 08-06-2012, 16:34   #6
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If FMJ is my only choice in .45 or 9mm.. would have to pick .45. Heavier bullets will break through bone and hide better on some of the 4 legged bad guys that rome freely out here in fly over country.
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Old 08-06-2012, 16:52   #7
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G19Fan,

Where'd you find that test? Do you have a link for it?


For whatever slim margin it might have, I'll take the .45, thank you very much.
This was my own test. Both bullets fully penetrated the 17 inches of gelatin, with the .45ACP penetrating 2 water jugs compared to the 9mm being stopped in the first.

The 9mm bullet yawed roughly 6 inches into the path and exited base first.
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Old 08-06-2012, 16:53   #8
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Am I the only one who thinks the 9mm clearly outperformed the .45?
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Old 08-06-2012, 17:27   #9
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Am I the only one who thinks the 9mm clearly outperformed the .45?
No, I would agree by the photo that the 9mm did perform better in the first 12 inches. I've never been a 45 guy. I don't have any use for them.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:38   #10
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Am I the only one who thinks the 9mm clearly outperformed the .45?
Yes. The .45 will deflect less and have a 21% larger bullet diameter. I want a bullet that will plow right through ribs or a breast plate, not turn 90% at the first obstacle, negating your shot placement, like a wimpy 9mm.

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Old 08-08-2012, 11:33   #11
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Yes. The .45 will deflect less and have a 21% larger bullet diameter. I want a bullet that will plow right through ribs or a breast plate, not turn 90% at the first obstacle, negating your shot placement, like a wimpy 9mm.
The 9mm is known for penetrating hard obstacles better than the .45, especially something as shallow as the sternum or ribs.

High powered rifles are known forslightly deflecting off brush while hunting in the woods. .45ACPs are also known to deflect off windsheilds as well as other parts of the car body that the 9mm doesnt have a problem getting through.

Im not gonna argue about what it better for shooting cars. I am simply giving you examples of real world instances where ALL bullets will react when encountering an obstacle.

Also, the 9mm bullet doesnt turn 90 degrees becuase of its "pellet gun like ballistics". It turns 90, then 180 degrees becuase the shape of the bullet, in relation to the center of gravity. .50BMG bullets do the exact same thing.
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Old 10-24-2012, 18:31   #12
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Am I the only one who thinks the 9mm clearly outperformed the .45?

Nope! Your not the only one....Never been a 45 guy....

There is a G20SF near by for heavy work....so no need for the 45.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:18   #13
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Am I the only one who thinks the 9mm clearly outperformed the .45?
Well, while NATO (and the United States Army) seem to agree with you, the United States Marine Corps does not.

(Then again, neither do I.)
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:39   #14
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[QUOTE=Arc Angel;19643661]Well, while NATO (and the United States Army) seem to agree with you, the United States Marine Corps does not.

(Then again, neither do I.) :

The only 9mm that has a chance of out-performing the .45 FMJ-RN is the 115gr JHP +p+ round that the military cannot use.

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Old 08-06-2012, 17:13   #15
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This was my own test. Both bullets fully penetrated the 17 inches of gelatin, with the .45ACP penetrating 2 water jugs compared to the 9mm being stopped in the first.

The 9mm bullet yawed roughly 6 inches into the path and exited base first.
Thanks.

As for which fmj out-performed the other, you'll have to define the criteria by which they're being judged.

Is it strictly penetration? The amount of damage done in the first 12" of penetration? The one that penetrated the most? A combination of all three or something else entirely?
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Old 08-06-2012, 18:26   #16
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Thanks.

As for which fmj out-performed the other, you'll have to define the criteria by which they're being judged.

Is it strictly penetration? The amount of damage done in the first 12" of penetration? The one that penetrated the most? A combination of all three or something else entirely?
I am basing it off what is shown in the picture. Based off the picture alone, I would say the 9mm did more damage overall.
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Old 08-06-2012, 22:11   #17
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Originally Posted by Glock19Fan View Post
This was my own test. Both bullets fully penetrated the 17 inches of gelatin, with the .45ACP penetrating 2 water jugs compared to the 9mm being stopped in the first.

The 9mm bullet yawed roughly 6 inches into the path and exited base first.
The yaw may have more to do with twist rate than anything... barely stabilized in flight? Can't say.

Folks nowadays make fun of us old caliber tards, but they forget that for a long time, there wasn't fancy hollow points or +P loads for the 9mm. IMHO, it's only been a viable choice for the last 15 years or so... before that, nobody seriously considered 9mm ball in a defensive gun. It was really .45 auto or .357 mag. If you were shooting in the late 80's or before, you know what I'm talking about.

Lot of guys like to site Mas Ayoob here... well, read his book In the Gravest Extreme. It comes from that era. He voted .45 ball over other fmj cartridges, and in my opinion, for good reason. The hardware in the book is out of date, but the software is spot on... I don't always agree with Mr. Ayoob on these pages, but I think that was a great book and still worth reading.

.45 ball ammo has over 100 uncontroversial years behind it. 9mm has been around longer, but has a dubious reputation in fmj with any bullet weight.

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Old 08-06-2012, 17:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock19Fan View Post
If you had to use FMJ and was forced to pick between 9mm and .45, what would you choose? From a Glock 19 and 5 inch barreled 1911. .45ACP on top and 9mm on bottom. Both WWB from 5 feet, and direction of travel was from the right.

Caliber Corner

I use Gold Dots, I just thought it would be interesting to show this test.
9mm all day any day. Lighter recoil makes it much more controllable and much easier to shoot accurately under duress, Much more ammo capacity which is good since. criminals commit crimes in groups more than they do alone. Id rather have 15+1 9mm when facing 3 robbers then 8+1 45acp.
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Old 11-07-2012, 13:48   #19
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9mm all day any day. Lighter recoil makes it much more controllable and much easier to shoot accurately under duress, Much more ammo capacity which is good since. criminals commit crimes in groups more than they do alone. Id rather have 15+1 9mm when facing 3 robbers then 8+1 45acp.
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No offense but if you need 15+1 rounds you need more time at the range
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Old 11-07-2012, 14:05   #20
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No offense but if you need 15+1 rounds you need more time at the range
Can I borrow your crystal ball?

Handguns are weak and ineffective, and you may require many shots, and many hits, to stop a single attacker.

You may face multiple attackers.

As they say...nobody ever complained about having too much ammunition. (weight, in this case, should not be a factor, we're not talking about full battle rattle with a rifle, 210 rounds, a pistol with mags, armour, other equipment, etc)
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