[James Dean]

I just got a Springfield 3.8 45ACP. I have very little experience with the .45 ACP in a defense load. What do you guys recommend? 180gr VS 230gr.

[Beretta92guy]

in 45 acp?? 230 grain PERIOD....

if you want 185 grain, just go with a .40 caliber and 180 grain, higher capacity.....

IMO

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by Beretta92guy

in 45 acp?? 230 grain PERIOD....

if you want 185 grain, just go with a .40 caliber and 180 grain, higher capacity.....

EXACTLY what I was going to say!

A big advantage to 230s is you will practice with exactly the same stuff.

[NEOH212]

Originally Posted by Beretta92guy

in 45 acp?? 230 grain PERIOD....

if you want 185 grain, just go with a .40 caliber and 180 grain, higher capacity.....

IMO

Agree 100%

[NBT]

Originally Posted by Beretta92guy

in 45 acp?? 230 grain PERIOD....

Second this statement.

[Zombie Steve]

I tend to stick with 200 and 230 grain bullets. Just seems to play to the strength of the cartridge... throwing a big rock.

It matters a whole lot less than what some people on here will say. 185 or 230, it will all kill the badguy.

How dare you interject reality into an interweb thread!!!

First, .45 ball ammo IS NOT decent. Unless you think 27" of penetration with only a .45" hole is "decent".

I take it you mean 27" of jello penetration? What does that mean in the real world? Half? Yeah, I think that's decent.

The constant promises from the ammo manufacturing world are kinda funny. "Here's a hollow point that is great at barrier penetration"... somehow acts like a solid when you want it to, but expands when you don't want to overpenetrate. Actually, I think advertising for hunting bullets is the worst of the offenders.


Anyway, I don't worry about it too much. I still have some HST's I bought several years back. If I had to carry a flat point cast bullet I made in the garage, I'd be ok with that too...

[James Dean]

Thank You all for your replies.
I bought a G 32 357 sig last month and I have been so busy with work I still haven't got to the range yet. I hope to shoot this Springfield soon too. I'm a little concerned with shooting JHP in .45. I read online that the .45 ball cycles no problem, but are JHP just as reliable?

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by James Dean

Thank You all for your replies.
I bought a G 32 357 sig last month and I have been so busy with work I still haven't got to the range yet. I hope to shoot this Springfield soon too. I'm a little concerned with shooting JHP in .45. I read online that the .45 ball cycles no problem, but are JHP just as reliable?

100% in modern guns, but ALWAYS run several fully loaded mags to verify. Subtle changes in manuf can cause one gun to fail w/ ammo when another of the same manuf runs fine, Always verify your carry ammo.

[brisk21]

It matters a whole lot less than what some people on here will say. 185 or 230, it will all kill the badguy.

[collim1]

I prefer standard velocity 230g.

I keep Gold Dots, HST, and Ranger T's stocked up. Dont really have a preference as to which one I carry, they are all good. I am carrying Gold Dots now.

[NEOH212]

Originally Posted by collim1

I prefer standard velocity 230g.

I keep Gold Dots, HST, and Ranger T's stocked up. Dont really have a preference as to which one I carry, they are all good. I am carrying Gold Dots now.

Same here and I agree 100%!

[4949shooter]

I fired some Remington Golden Sabre 185 grain +p out of a Gen 2 G21 I had years ago. The stuff is potent.

45ACP Remington 185gr +P Golden Saber impacting 20% gelatin - YouTube

45ACP Remington 185gr +P Golden Saber impacting 20% gelatin - YouTube

I wouldn't fire it out of a Colt 1911 though. This ammo broke the slide stop off a series 80 Mark !V I had!

I also fired the Speer 200 grain +p load through a friend's G21 SF. It was peppy, but not near as stout as the Golden Sabre.

Good luck with your decision!

[fredj338]

It's why I like the 45acp so much, ammo selection isn't as critical. Hell, even ball ammo is decent. I disagree w/ many that say only shoot 230gr. Why? The original 45acp load was a 200gr bullet @ 900fps. The only reason it got heavier was the Army wanted something closer to it's long lost 45colt. So bullet selection is more important than bullet wt IMO. I am fine w/ any bullet wt in any JHP from 185gr-230gr by a major manuf. I am NOT a fan of +P loads, you get maybe 50fps & pay for that w/ add'l recoil & blast. The 9mm needs +P, the 45acp does not IMO. In a short & light 45acp, I will drop to the 200gr XTP std. vel. load. Plenty of penetration & less recoil in smaller guns. Even the 185gr RGS works quite well slowing it down to 950fps or so in a sub 4" bbl. Yeah, you can shoot 180gr 40s, but they are still 40 cal.

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by fredj338

It's why I like the 45acp so much, ammo selection isn't as critical. Hell, even ball ammo is decent. I disagree w/ many that say only shoot 230gr. Why? The original 45acp load was a 200gr bullet @ 900fps. The only reason it got heavier was the Army wanted something closer to it's long lost 45colt. So bullet selection is more important than bullet wt IMO. I am fine w/ any bullet wt in any JHP from 185gr-230gr by a major manuf. I am NOT a fan of +P loads, you get maybe 50fps & pay for that w/ add'l recoil & blast. The 9mm needs +P, the 45acp does not IMO. In a short & light 45acp, I will drop to the 200gr XTP std. vel. load. Plenty of penetration & less recoil in smaller guns. Even the 185gr RGS works quite well slowing it down to 950fps or so in a sub 4" bbl. Yeah, you can shoot 180gr 40s, but they are still 40 cal.

First, .45 ball ammo IS NOT decent. Unless you think 27" of penetration with only a .45" hole is "decent". Ask Ayoob for his opinion on .45 ball for defense.

Second, penetration is a function of sectional density. 185gr .45's have fairly low sectional density. Much akin to a 135gr .40 or a 95gr 9mm. Not exactly known for optimal penetration.

Third, I'll come back to the practice ammo argument: Finding affordable 185gr .45 ammo is difficult unless you hand load.

[Kingarthurhk]

.45 ACP is a good round. I like it. Relatively low recoil with devistating "flying ash trays".

I have a .40, it's fine.

I have a 10mm, it's better.

[countrygun]

i have always used a 230 gn hp. This winter will mark 35 years of me and the .45acp. As others have said a 180 gn .40 exists so why shoot a 185 .45?

I liked the HPs when Speer was still making their "Flying ashtray" which they no longer make. (There was only ONE "Flying Ashtray") but I would use whatever HP was availble just on the grounds that, even if it hardly expanded at all, it would still make a greater wound channel than ball and would be less ricochet prone.

Another benefit to 230s is that it is the standard weight for ball ammo for practice and a properly desinged hp (for the same velocity) will generally have a POI close enough.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by cowboy1964

First, .45 ball ammo IS NOT decent. Unless you think 27" of penetration with only a .45" hole is "decent". Ask Ayoob for his opinion on .45 ball for defense.

Second, penetration is a function of sectional density. 185gr .45's have fairly low sectional density. Much akin to a 135gr .40 or a 95gr 9mm. Not exactly known for optimal penetration.

Third, I'll come back to the practice ammo argument: Finding affordable 185gr .45 ammo is difficult unless you hand load.

It would be better than the same 27" of penetration & a smaller 9mm hole. So yes, decent in comparison to other ball ammo.
Sec Den is only relevant if bullet construction is identical. It also changes as the bullet expands, so a well designed 185gr bullet will penetrate as well or even more than a poorly designed 230gr bullet, regasrdless of SecDen. BTW, if you are going to quote SD figures, at least get them correct. The 185gr/45 is identical to a 115gr/9mm or sim to a 155gr/40, many swear by those as fine self defense loads.
Practice ammo, it matter very little in felt recoil or POI if you shoot 200gr bullets or 185gr bullet loaded to sim vel., Yes I handload, but then I know I can't get better shooting the limited amount of factory ammo I could buy. Shoot what you like, but making a bogus statement that only 230gr ammo will do when the round was conceived w/ a 200gr bullet in mind is just not looking at all the numbers. Bullet construction will always trump SecDen & a 45cal bullet will never get smaller as it penetrates it's target, regardless of what may or may not clog the HP.
I would rather shoot a good 185gr or 200gr JHP, like the XTP, in a short & lt 45 vs going to 230gr+P to get the vel back up to get me the penetration I want.

[dkf]

Speer has a warm little 200gr +P Gold Dot load. I wouldn't hesitate to giving that a shot if you don't mind something a tad warmer.

[Trigger Finger]

Just use a 45 Super and blow the guy's head CLEAN off!

[DRhodes]

Originally Posted by cowboy1964

First, .45 ball ammo IS NOT decent. Unless you think 27" of penetration with only a .45" hole is "decent". Ask Ayoob for his opinion on .45 ball for defense.

.45 ACP ball was "decent" through 4 wars.

Isn't Ayoob the guy who has a pistol taped to his toilet?

[FFR Spyder GT]

Originally Posted by DRhodes

.45 ACP ball was "decent" through 4 wars.

Isn't Ayoob the guy who has a pistol taped to his toilet?

The nice thing about .45acp ball ammo is the penetration that you get.

Nothing like chunkin' 3-230gr hardballs ALL the way through a BG.

Leaves a nice blood trail too!

[Warp]

Originally Posted by DRhodes

.45 ACP ball was "decent" through 4 wars.

Isn't Ayoob the guy who has a pistol taped to his toilet?

I'll take advice from Ayoob way, WAY, WAY before some random anonymous guy on the internet.

[NEOH212]

Originally Posted by Warp

I'll take advice from Ayoob way, WAY, WAY before some random anonymous guy on the internet.

I'll second that. I think Mas knows a thing or two about these things.

[brisk21]

I will admit that I don't have any .45 ACP thats not 230gr. I like the consistancy of the felt recoil. Im very used to it.

[Poohgyrr]

What do you shoot best with??