[Gertz]

I have been looking for a 9mm +P+ FMJ cartridge. The only thing I have found on the market is the Winchester Ranger +P NATO. Anyone have anything for/against that cartridge? Or know of any other increased pressure FMJ cartridges?

*Please no Hollow-Points*

Thanks for any information

[9mm +p+]

Federal used to load a 124 truncated cone looking FMJ +p+, don't know if they still do. I think buffalo bore loads a hot FMJ as well.

[Gertz]

Yea I saw that cartridge

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=225

I still trying to look into the "low recoil" powder. I don't really know about that. I'd imagine it'd be a slower burning powder, which I wouldn't like.

[Zombie Steve]

Originally Posted by Gertz

I still trying to look into the "low recoil" powder. I don't really know about that. I'd imagine it'd be a slower burning powder, which I wouldn't like.

Well, you're not going to get a fast projectile without using a slower burning powder. No free lunch, amigo.

As far as recoil, it totally depends on the load. I use some fast powder / heavy for caliber bullet combos that recoil fairly light - seems to be the popular combo in gun games. I also have tried Unique and WSF side by side and found the WSF load to be much smoother.

[M 7]

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

Federal used to load a 124 truncated cone looking FMJ +p+, don't know if they still do. I think buffalo bore loads a hot FMJ as well.

Yes, it was the Federal XM9MP 9mm 124 gr. FMJ-SWC.

Supposed to be good for 1,280 fps and about a yard of penetration.

[pck50]

Try the following !

www.underwoodammo.com
www.buffalobore.com

If anyone will have it they may.

Originally Posted by Gertz

I have been looking for a 9mm +P+ FMJ cartridge. The only thing I have found on the market is the Winchester Ranger +P NATO. Anyone have anything for/against that cartridge? Or know of any other increased pressure FMJ cartridges?

*Please no Hollow-Points*

Thanks for any information

[Gertz]

I like the underwood ammo. I don't really like HP ammunition though. I like FMJ with a 9mm so I keep my tumble effect/penetration.

[avenues165]

Tumble effect?

Even if that short of a round were to yaw I don't see it making a huge wound with FMJ. Seems like a deep penetrating JHP would be a better choice if you want to increase the possibility of incapacitation.

Not trying to be a jerk, just curious about your thoughts on this.

[Gertz]

well from the tests I've done and others have done I know it does tumble with a fmj bullet. I like having that while still keeping high penetration.

and no it's not huge, but I it does help, and if you place the shot right it doesn't really matter.

That's also the reason I'm looking for a high pressured round. Not only more energy but increased speed also increases the chance to tumble.

[avenues165]

Cool, to each his own.

I agree with you on velocity, I totally love a hot round for SD (some don't think it matters at all and base their selection more on the bullet performance in the factory load, just a difference of opinion).

My ideal for a SD load is a JHP bullet that will hold together at the highest velocity I can find and still penetrate deep. Right now I have my eye on Underwood's 357 sig GD JHP load at 1,450 fps. I intend to buy a box of it on Monday and test it through wet newsprint (wish I could do it with gelatin) to see how the GD bullet handles the higher velocity.

With higher velocity in a JHP round you can actually lose penetration, so I feel the GD with a higher velocity should be tested.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Gertz

I like the underwood ammo. I don't really like HP ammunition though. I like FMJ with a 9mm so I keep my tumble effect/penetration.

This is kind of a BS though. Whether the bullet tumbles or not is in the design, not the vel. So all a faster FMJ gets you is it leaves the target sooner. Not much point in FMJ IMO, just poking less than caliber holes, UNLESS it hits bone or tumbles & there is just no guarantee either will happen. BTW, if the bullet does tumble, penetration is reduced drastically in any caliber. Damage goes up, but penetration goes down.
Reality, most RNFMJ will veer or deflect & not tumble & that comes at the end as the bullet slows. That loss of straight line penetration could mean a miss on vitals instead of a hit. The Gifford shooting is such an anectdotal event. A properly built JHP will straight line penetrate & cause a much larger perm wound channel leading to faster incapacitation. Think about it, one reason FMJ is banned for hunting in almost all states & is only prefered in Africa for thick skinned, large boned DG.
Yes, to each his own, but for most of us, FMJ is a handicap & you are already handicapped having to use a handgun for SD. Why make it worse, especially since your thought about penetration & tumbling are really counter to each other.

[Foxtrotx1]

Originally Posted by fredj338

This is kind of a BS though. Whether the bullet tumbles or not is in the design, not the vel. So all faster FMJ gets you is it leaves the target sooner. Not much point in FMJ IMO, just poking less than caliber holes, UNLESS it hits bone or tumbles & there is just no guarantee either will happen. BTW, if the bullet does tumble, penetration is reduced drastically in any caliber. Damage goes up, but penetration goes down.

Listen to Fred, hes a very informed member here.

Worst case:

Federal Guard Dog 9mm 105 gr EFMJ AMMO TEST - YouTube

Federal Guard Dog 9mm 105 gr EFMJ AMMO TEST - YouTube

[Gertz]

This is getting too heated for me!! EJECT!! EJECT!!! EJECT!!!!

[Foxtrotx1]

A tumbling is only significant if the bullet actually has some length to it so it can create drag and score a wide wound channel. A 9mm 124 is practically almost as aerodynamic sideways as it is front on.

[Merkavaboy]

Originally Posted by Gertz

I have been looking for a 9mm +P+ FMJ cartridge. The only thing I have found on the market is the Winchester Ranger +P NATO. Anyone have anything for/against that cartridge? Or know of any other increased pressure FMJ cartridges?

*Please no Hollow-Points*

Thanks for any information

If you want an increased pressure 9mm load try finding some Hirtenberger L7A1 124FMJ ammo. This is definately a high, but not overpressure, loading from 1990/91. I've shot 50 rnds of this ammo out of my G19 with no signs of overpressure and it chrono'ed at 1279fps for a 5-shot avg.

[pck50]

Wow now thats some cartridges I do miss as also the GECO BAT TRAUMA, But in all honesty a good current decent replacement today would be the HORNADY Critical Duty
9mm 135 grain +P No Hirtenberger and no GECO BAT TRAUMA But far better then what maybe currently available.

Originally Posted by Merkavaboy

If you want an increased pressure 9mm load try finding some Hirtenberger L7A1 124FMJ ammo. This is definately a high, but not overpressure, loading from 1990/91. I've shot 50 rnds of this ammo out of my G19 with no signs of overpressure and it chrono'ed at 1279fps for a 5-shot avg.

[Foxtrotx1]

Before choosing 9mm FMJ, you should consider that Rep. Giffords is still alive partially due to their lack of lethality.

[Gertz]

Who is that? And anything can be non-lethal if you dont hit something vital.

[Gertz]

hmm....never mind lol but is she really alive? Technically maybe. That's pretty ****ed up though.

[Foxtrotx1]

Originally Posted by Gertz

hmm....never mind lol but is she really alive? Technically maybe. That's pretty ****ed up though.

Technically? She is doing fine. Almost 100 percent.

You should do some reading on how well the 9mm FMJ does for the US military.

[Gertz]

Originally Posted by Foxtrotx1

Technically? She is doing fine. Almost 100 percent.

You should do some reading on how well the 9mm FMJ does for the US military.

Did some more reading on her. That's crazy how well she is doing after that kind of wound. That guy did kill a lot of other people though, including a 9 year old girl. I don't really like using this incident to judge the effectiveness of a cartridge. It's kinda ****ed up.

R.I.P. Christina Green

[OctoberRust]

Originally Posted by Foxtrotx1

Before choosing 9mm FMJ, you should consider that Rep. Giffords is still alive partially due to their lack of lethality.

Was she incapped the time of the shooting though?

And are you certain a slightly bigger bullet would have changed things? Wasn't there a kid that took a speer gun to the head with little damage (relatively speaking) to his brain, and is expected to make an almost full recovery?....

[spcwes]

I have to ask the OP, how much penetration are you after? Also are you assuming that on the slight chance you get a tumble it is somehow better than consistant expansion and penetration?

[Gertz]

Originally Posted by spcwes

I have to ask the OP, how much penetration are you after? Also are you assuming that on the slight chance you get a tumble it is somehow better than consistant expansion and penetration?

I just don't like hollow points, and I really just started this thread looking for some ammo. I don't want to go into it that much. I like my 9mm FMJ. I'd prefer, however, a Winchester Model 70 in a 30-06. Something like that I'd switch to a flat nose or soft point but I just don't like hollow points.

To each his own

[Foxtrotx1]

Originally Posted by Gertz

I just don't like hollow points, and I really just started this thread looking for some ammo. I don't want to go into it that much. I like my 9mm FMJ. I'd prefer, however, a Winchester Model 70 in a 30-06. Something like that I'd switch to a flat nose or soft point but I just don't like hollow points.

To each his own

Well your distaste in hollow points could get someone hurt. A 9mm fmj is going a long way on a miss.