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Old 06-01-2012, 10:18   #1
ColCol
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Are HK's Really Superior?

Think about it.

Why HK?

1. Most are designed, built and tested to NATO MIL specs (ACC-225), not commercial specs. NATO specs includes tests not conducted by many commercial makers such as drop tests, obstructed bore tests, extreme temps, ice, static sand, OTB, elevated/depressed, etc.

2. All (100%) of HK firearms are test fired and zeroed at the factory. In some companies only a % are tested.

3. HK materials (steel, barrel, etc.) are of the highest quality available and it shows in long-term or worst case scenarios. The superior barrel performance is a good example, though you may never see it in casual use.

4. HK pistols are not assembled by armorers’ students and then sold to customers. Some companies have been known to do so.

5. The average German worker is paid at a far higher rate than the equivalent US worker. Part of the reasons why includes the mandatory training they must receive and tests they must pass before receiving the position. The cost of living in Germany is also higher and HK contributes to a substantial “Pensioner Fund” for its retirees. Many also work at the same company for decades and not uncommon are 40 year employees!) and therefore rise high on the pay scale for their extensive hard-earned skill and experience.

6. HK barrels are made by a cold hammer forged process using a material that is unique to HK guns. Many barrels get special HK-unique steps added such as a tapered, poly, hybrid poly bore profile or induction hardening and all long-gun barrels are straightened. As an example, Stelite liners are not used in HK MG barrels – they are simply not needed and perform as well or better.

7. Compare the polymer molding and machining of say an HK P30 and a SIG P229. It is RARE to see machining marks on an HK.

8. HK rigorously tests their products to destruction in a "Firing Lab" manned with very senior test personnel before the design is frozen. This reduces the incidence of post-release issues. HK also takes and test its products at remote environmental test facilities to include desert (Yuma Proving Grounds, Saudi Arabia), arctic (Norway, Alaska), jungle (Brunei, Panama). That costs BIG bucks but pays off in hard core performance.

9. HK guns are imported for the most part (or the parts used to assemble them in NH) are imported. That results in mandatory FET, freight and exchange rate subsidies being added and passed on to the customer. HK as a German gun maker and importer they also have to comply with stringent export controls and that too costs money, which gets passed along in sale prices.

10. The cost of the production tooling (and materials) used by HK to produce, assemble and QA product is high as it includes QA tests and steps not conducted by many other makers. HK cut its teeth as a mass producer and still today builds the production tooling with that in mind –high volumes with a lot of automation. That tooling and gauging costs money as does the high hourly rates of the skilled workers and the additional time required to conduct it.

11. 10-20% of HK’s annual operating budget is spent on its extensive “Technique” departments to include Design, Prototype Fabrication and the Firing Lab. These are the highest paid, most skilled workers at HK and that costs money as well. They are best of breed and always have many more projects up in the air then you might think, or know of (Phased Plasma Rifle in the 80 watt Range).

12. HK places itself purposely in the “higher end” of the market. Like BMW and Mercedes HK knows it rates are higher and always will be compared to say Colt, S&W, Beretta, etc. So they go after superior performance and quality at a higher price point to fewer purchasers versus a cheaper, lower quality product to more buyers.

13. @ 15% of HK annual revenue is reinvested in new products, and infrastructure. While that may not seem like a lot it is and the state of the factory at in Oberndorf shows it. Look at the state of their competitors factories. There are few that compare to HK GmbH in the eyes of those who have been to many others. HK spends the revenue it makes off of both commercial and Government sales on new product so in a way the US commercial buyer who purchases an HK45 pistol helps fund the development of the MG4 LMG or XM25.

14. HK builds much of the weapon parts in house to maintain quality control. While cheaper subs are available one loses some control in doing so. HK’s goal has always been to minimize cost but maintain quality and to do so it keeps many items in house that in many others companies go to the higher bidder (magazines, small piece parts, etc.). HK also has some of the very best MIM and molding capabilities and can thus up the quality of their product by using their own, superior product.

15. Like HK, HK’s subs are of a higher quality for the same reasons and with the same end results. You buy the very best frame mold in Germany, it will cost you but the end product is superior.

16. Interchangeable parts – very few HK parts are not fully interchangeable without hand fitting. Even in a gun like the GMG, there are no parts that require hand fitting. This requires that each and every raw material and finished part, and each tool that fabricates the part, is dimensionally and exactly the same and maintained the same at all time by constant checks by skilled personnel with high dollar measuring devices and gauges. Again something you may never see but it insures when you replace a part it both fits and works w/o modifications.

17. HK has voluntarily developed, tested and included in their product unique features like USP firing mode modularity, MK23 barrel O-rings, special high performance finishes, unique G36/HK416 gas systems, drop-in LEM trigger systems, side-loading 40mm grenade launchers, GMG’s with extruded aluminum receivers and HK211’s with Ti receivers, unique cartridges for things like MP7 and P46, etc. HK also makes over 100 models of HK firearms currently and 1000’s of modular variants for users the world over speaking many languages, which costs money to build, inventory, document and record these countless production variations.
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Old 06-01-2012, 19:55   #2
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Great list but I'm not sure what the big deal is about interchangeable parts, at least for handguns. Doesn't everyone making mass market guns do that now?
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Old 06-01-2012, 20:26   #3
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I personally think HK makes the best polymer handguns.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:50   #4
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Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
I personally think HK makes the best polymer handguns.
I'm yet to see anything that disputes that fact. No other polymer gun has a thing on HK. HK is the best poly gun on the market period. All others take a back seat!

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Old 06-02-2012, 11:40   #5
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I'm yet to see anything that disputes that fact. No other polymer gun has a thing on HK. HK is the best poly gun on the market period. All others take a back seat!

A far back seat in fact! Look at what Todd Green can do with a HK45 he broke below 2 second's(Bill Drill) with a concealed HK45. All mine are DA/SA and i can shoot them better than any other gun.

Some send their HK's to Bruce Gray for a trigger job that put's a already Top Tier gun into one with a Superb Trigger. I just do my 2,000 rd trigger job, dry fire and the trigger's smooth out fine for me.
http://grayguns.com/dry-fire-secrets-of-the-pros/

http://grayguns.com/gunsmith-service...-koch-pistols/

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Old 06-02-2012, 12:56   #6
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Watch how those 6 cases eject... it's like they're on an invisible track. Glock, perhaps you could learn something here.
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Old 06-02-2012, 19:38   #7
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Watch how those 6 cases eject... it's like they're on an invisible track. Glock, perhaps you could learn something here.
I agree!! Just amazing. I cannot think as of now anyone that can break under 2 second's with even a 9mm.

Glock seem's to be going the way of Sig. lately. I don't have any Glock's now but if i did it would be a older used one.

cowboy nice observation!!
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Old 07-24-2012, 20:50   #8
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[QUOTE=deeHKman;19042824] Look at what Todd Green can do with a HK45 he broke below 2 second's(Bill Drill) with a concealed HK45.
QUOTE]

That was very fast. It would have been better to see where his hits were on the target.

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Old 07-27-2012, 01:18   #9
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That was very fast. It would have been better to see where his hits were on the target.

RJ
Todd is known for pushing both speed and accuracy. I would not doubt that all his hits were on target.
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Old 06-07-2012, 21:23   #10
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I'm yet to see anything that disputes that fact. No other polymer gun has a thing on HK. HK is the best poly gun on the market period. All others take a back seat!

Post this in General Glocking and watch all the fan boys claim the H&K is over priced junk while their Gen 4 9mm, that Glock still can't seem to get right, is perfect.

I own 2 H&Ks and they, especially my 45c, are the best polymer guns I have.
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Old 07-14-2012, 18:54   #11
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Post this in General Glocking and watch all the fan boys claim the H&K is over priced junk while their Gen 4 9mm, that Glock still can't seem to get right, is perfect.

I own 2 H&Ks and they, especially my 45c, are the best polymer guns I have.
Yup!

Those who have never owned a HK just don't get it and won't admit it!

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Old 08-06-2012, 00:37   #12
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I'm yet to see anything that disputes that fact. No other polymer gun has a thing on HK. HK is the best poly gun on the market period. All others take a back seat!

I agree.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:17   #13
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I personally think HK makes the best polymer handguns.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:27   #14
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i wish they would bring back the P7 series.
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Old 06-07-2012, 21:07   #15
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P7 was a very nice well designed in size wise. Had an amazing accuracy to it.
BUT Yes there is a but which I dont like the gun was poorly designed in regards to the gas retardation system which escapes in the frame of the firearm at which upon rapid fire after 3 mags fill the gun gets so HOT it can not be held.
Mean while a Glock 26 can easily go through over 10 mags of 33 rounds without any heating to the the cappacity it can simply contiually be held and continuousely fired.
That is what makes the P7 a poorly designed firearm.




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i wish they would bring back the P7 series.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:37   #16
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P7 was a very nice well designed in size wise. Had an amazing accuracy to it.
BUT Yes there is a but which I dont like the gun was poorly designed in regards to the gas retardation system which escapes in the frame of the firearm at which upon rapid fire after 3 mags fill the gun gets so HOT it can not be held.
Mean while a Glock 26 can easily go through over 10 mags of 33 rounds without any heating to the the cappacity it can simply contiually be held and continuousely fired.
That is what makes the P7 a poorly designed firearm.
poorly designed? one of the most accurate and ergonomic pistols ever made with an ingenious, very safe manual of arms? as far as heat buildup the gun will run fine through a 100rd LE pistol qual and serve you well through the average shootout; distance of 7yds or less, average of 4 shots fired, 4 or less participants. use the tool in the context that it was designed for. a no compromise defensive handgun, not a range blaster.
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Old 06-08-2012, 21:21   #17
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...That is what makes the P7 a poorly designed firearm.
The P7 is not a poorly designed pistol by any means. Rather, it is quite ingenious. The designer Helmut Welde also went on to design, amongst other things, the LEM trigger for other HK pistols.

The P7 was purpose built as a police duty sidearm, meant for quick and accurate fight stopping shots fired at close distances. It is not intended to be range gun. How many eight round P7 magazines can one reasonably carry as spares? Perhaps two or three. Within that limit, heating of the frame becomes a non-issue.

Despite the grip angle of about 110 degrees, which much like a Glock sits very low in the hand, the cartridges feed at an almost horizontal angle into the chamber. This greatly increases feeding reliability.

The chamber flutes reduce carbon build up and the subsequent possibility of spent cases "sticking" in the chamber, as well aiding in positive extraction/ejection. A P7 will continue to function with a missing or broken extractor. If you attempt this with a Glock you will have a single shot pistol.

Incorporated into the design is a cocking lever as well as other redundant drop safety measures. Even though it is striker fired this makes the P7, by design, inherently very safe to carry and use.

Why is the P7 no longer made? The answer is simple... the cost of manufacture per unit.

Glocks are great pistols. I carry one daily. But to my mind, disparaging the actual marvel of engineering that is the P7 is simply folly.

"If one is going to carry an underpowered pistol (9mm) he should carry the neatest and handiest one available, and that is the H&K P7." ~ Jeff Cooper
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Old 03-02-2013, 18:43   #18
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i wish they would bring back the P7 series.
It would result in a worldwide steel shortage.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:41   #19
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I personally think HK makes the best polymer handguns.
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Old 06-03-2012, 20:21   #20
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I personally think HK makes the best polymer handguns.

Agree have HK P30 and Glock 23 Better made for me HK
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