GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2012, 17:01   #1
matthewmurray706
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Home defense ammo for CCW?

I was wondering if anyone has input on using home defense rounds in your concealed carry gun. Is it a good idea to have 1 or 2 home defense rounds at the top of the magazine?

If there are no bystanders, it would only make sense to have hollow points. But for example, if you are in a restaurant and someone opens fire, would it be best to return fire with a home defense round so you have better chances of a bullet not over penetrating?

I carry a Glock 26 (9mm). I have speer gold dot hollow points. I currently have Federal Guard Dog rounds in my home defense gun which is a .40. I was considering buying home defense rounds in 9mm for my CCW.
matthewmurray706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:18   #2
Mc45
Registered User
 
Mc45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Im not an expert by any means so I'm going to watch this thread for other opinions. But I don't leave home with out my Winchester HydraShock rounds in my G30. I wouldn't carry hardball on the street if I ever use it I want to stop the threat.
Mc45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:35   #3
Simplejack
Senior Member
 
Simplejack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 138
Well you can't really predict any situation you might be in and you probably will never have to use your gun in your life time for self defense. So picking out a ammo that might be good for one situation might not be as good for another.
I just loaded up with some Hornady Critical Defense FTX bullets and I think that will be a good choice for most situation you might come across.

Or you can just carry 4 clips with different rounds in each and then you will have options depending on your situation, just be sure to label your mags
If you do have to shoot someone, you have to use your own best judgement to determine if it is safe to shoot in that direction, no ammo is going to solve that issue.
__________________
Glock 26 Gen4 - Trijicon Night Sights - PearceGrip PG-2733 - Glockmeister Grip Plug - Glock Extended Slide Release - Ghost Ranger 4.5 lb trigger - Hornady 9mm FTX - Blackhawk IWB Nylon Holster w/Strap #07
http://www.facebook.com/GlockGen4Community
Simplejack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:42   #4
matthewmurray706
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplejack View Post
Well you can't really predict any situation you might be in and you probably will never have to use your gun in your life time for self defense. So picking out a ammo that might be good for one situation might not be as good for another.
I just loaded up with some Hornady Critical Defense FTX bullets and I think that will be a good choice for most situation you might come across.

Or you can just carry 4 clips with different rounds in each and then you will have options depending on your situation, just be sure to label your mags
If you do have to shoot someone, you have to use your own best judgement to determine if it is safe to shoot in that direction, no ammo is going to solve that issue.
That was the only example I could come up with at the time. But the same would apply if I am sitting in the living room and someone busts in through the front door. If a bullet over penetrates, if could hit a neighbor's house across the street.

You do bring up a good point though. You do need to determine if its safe to shoot in a certain direction. I have seen numerous videos where hollow point cavities actually get clogged with clothing and act as a FMJ round.

Thank you for the input.
matthewmurray706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 21:23   #5
NJDrew1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplejack View Post
Well you can't really predict any situation you might be in and you probably will never have to use your gun in your life time for self defense. So picking out a ammo that might be good for one situation might not be as good for another.
I just loaded up with some Hornady Critical Defense FTX bullets and I think that will be a good choice for most situation you might come across.

Or you can just carry 4 clips with different rounds in each and then you will have options depending on your situation, just be sure to label your mags
If you do have to shoot someone, you have to use your own best judgement to determine if it is safe to shoot in that direction, no ammo is going to solve that issue.
Hornaday Critical Defense FTX here as well.
NJDrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:35   #6
matthewmurray706
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
@MC45 Federal Guard Dog ammo looks like a FMJ round, but it acts like a hollow point. If you were to cut open the tip of the bullet, there is a cavity in it like a hollow point. It expands when it hits and contains plastic fragments so it does not over penetrate. So its perfect for home defense but if it was to be used against a threat who is further away, it may or me not be as effective.

I can't find any information anywhere about use of this ammo for outside the home.

Last edited by matthewmurray706; 04-15-2012 at 17:36..
matthewmurray706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:43   #7
matthewmurray706
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mc45 View Post
Im not an expert by any means so I'm going to watch this thread for other opinions. But I don't leave home with out my Winchester HydraShock rounds in my G30. I wouldn't carry hardball on the street if I ever use it I want to stop the threat.
Federal Guard Dog ammo looks like a FMJ round, but it acts like a hollow point. If you were to cut open the tip of the bullet, there is a cavity in it like a hollow point. It expands when it hits and contains plastic fragments so it does not over penetrate. So its perfect for home defense but if it was to be used against a threat who is further away, it may or me not be as effective.

I can't find any information anywhere about use of this ammo for outside the home.
matthewmurray706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:45   #8
Simplejack
Senior Member
 
Simplejack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 138
Well if you live in a apartment or you need the safest round for innocent bystanders, there is Glaser ammo

Caliber Corner
__________________
Glock 26 Gen4 - Trijicon Night Sights - PearceGrip PG-2733 - Glockmeister Grip Plug - Glock Extended Slide Release - Ghost Ranger 4.5 lb trigger - Hornady 9mm FTX - Blackhawk IWB Nylon Holster w/Strap #07
http://www.facebook.com/GlockGen4Community
Simplejack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:56   #9
matthewmurray706
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplejack View Post
Well if you live in a apartment or you need the safest round for innocent bystanders, there is Glaser ammo

Caliber Corner
I have actually looked at this brand. I plan to buy these. Thanks for the suggestion.
matthewmurray706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:38   #10
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,765
Matt - I am not sure I understand the question. I use the same ammunition for home defense as I do for CCW. In some instances people have used a high energy low penetration round for home defense, like a hot 135gr in the 40 and use a heavier weight for concealed carry.

I do not know much about Guard Dogs. What makes them a home defense round?
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:51   #11
matthewmurray706
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
Matt - I am not sure I understand the question. I use the same ammunition for home defense as I do for CCW. In some instances people have used a high energy low penetration round for home defense, like a hot 135gr in the 40 and use a heavier weight for concealed carry.

I do not know much about Guard Dogs. What makes them a home defense round?
Federal Guard Dog is a low penetration round. I carry a 9mm with a Speer Gold Dot +P rounds. I am still learning about different ammo. As far as I know, there is a great chance that 9mm +P hollow points can over penetrate. Is this true? If so, would using a low penetration round in your concealed carry weapon ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and hit someone else?

If there is a good chance of over penetration with +P ammo, then I was considering loading 1 or 2 rounds of low penetration rounds. The third shot and on would be +P hollow points.
matthewmurray706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 17:56   #12
Simplejack
Senior Member
 
Simplejack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 138
I think your getting a little too technical with your ammo..

I think there is only 2 types of rounds you need to look into.

1. if you live in a apartment
2. for self defense outside your home.

Keep a clip full for home use and a clip full for when you go out
__________________
Glock 26 Gen4 - Trijicon Night Sights - PearceGrip PG-2733 - Glockmeister Grip Plug - Glock Extended Slide Release - Ghost Ranger 4.5 lb trigger - Hornady 9mm FTX - Blackhawk IWB Nylon Holster w/Strap #07
http://www.facebook.com/GlockGen4Community

Last edited by Simplejack; 04-15-2012 at 17:57..
Simplejack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 18:07   #13
matthewmurray706
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplejack View Post
I think your getting a little too technical with your ammo..

I think there is only 2 types of rounds you need to look into.

1. if you live in a apartment
2. for self defense outside your home.

Keep a clip full for home use and a clip full for when you go out
Lol. Ok. You make a great point. Keep it simple.

I'll continue what I am doing now. Keep hollow points in my carry weapon and home defense ammo in my home defense pistol.
matthewmurray706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 18:38   #14
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,307
My carry ammo is a premium JHP and my HD ammo is the same. Doesn't make sense to me to use these "low penetration" rounds at all, they will still go through walls and be lethal.

FYI the Federal EFMJ/Guard Dog bullet is not a JHP. All it really is, is a copper jacket with plastic in the tip and lead at the base. The jacket is thin and the plastic deforms greatly to cause expansion. I've seen videos where this bullet tumbles and it will sail through two pieces of drywall with minimal velocity loss.

Last edited by dkf; 04-15-2012 at 18:41..
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 21:01   #15
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewmurray706 View Post
Federal Guard Dog is a low penetration round. I carry a 9mm with a Speer Gold Dot +P rounds. I am still learning about different ammo. As far as I know, there is a great chance that 9mm +P hollow points can over penetrate. Is this true? If so, would using a low penetration round in your concealed carry weapon ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and hit someone else?

If there is a good chance of over penetration with +P ammo, then I was considering loading 1 or 2 rounds of low penetration rounds. The third shot and on would be +P hollow points.
I think I may understand now. If your Speer +p would hit a wall board it would pass through and the Guard Dog would expand and penetrate less. I think you go with whatever would be the best round to stop the BG, unless you live in an apartment as mentioned. In that case you may want to go with a shotgun.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 21:44   #16
Rev.357
Senior Member
 
Rev.357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Heath Springs SC
Posts: 434
My EDC G32 has 124gr GDHP as well as my G31. My G26 has GDHP 124gr & my G22c has Hornady Critical Duty 175gr. These are great all around bullets for these guns, I see no need to change rounds for EDC SD or Home SD.
__________________
G17,G19C,G21,G22C,G22RTF2/Gills,G26,G31,G32
Colt Python .357MAG 6'' Colt Trooper .357MAG 4''
Don't Start Nothing!! Want Be Nothing!!
NRA Pistol Instructor
SC CWP Instructor
Rev.357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 10:59   #17
Darkangel1846
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,678
I pack the nastiest HPs I can find. I want something that can penatrate then expand to the size of a washtub. I currently am testing and carring critical defense.
__________________
Peter 5:8
"Be sober, be vigilant; Because your adversary the Devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking who he may devour."
Darkangel1846 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 13:05   #18
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,136
Blog Entries: 3
Unless forced to carry something other than a good JHP, you always carry JHP, vs FMJ, always. Your chance of ending a fight sooner than later is greater & the chance of ricochetts & over penetration is reduced.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 15:05   #19
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Unless forced to carry something other than a good JHP, you always carry JHP, vs FMJ, always. Your chance of ending a fight sooner than later is greater & the chance of ricochetts & over penetration is reduced.
Yep. The faster the BG is put out of the fight, the better for everyone involved, including bystanders or neighbors.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
WoodenPlank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 07:29   #20
Glock_your_world
Senior Member
 
Glock_your_world's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 138
I use gold dots for everything.
__________________
M&P 9 Pro.
Glock_your_world is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 14:20   #21
RMD
Senior Member
 
RMD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 20K dm above the shore
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock_your_world View Post
I use gold dots for everything.
Great approach!
RMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 14:31   #22
ted1
Senior Member
 
ted1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 476
I don't understand hollow points are made to spread on impact thus reducing penatration. I would never use ball ammo for ccw or home defense. I stock up on cheap ball ammo aka range rounds because they are cheap I use them at the range and I would use them in a case where there was civil unrest where I had to defend my home and my family. Let's hope that never happens but you never know.

Sent from my ADR6300
ted1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 16:17   #23
Kentguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kent, OH
Posts: 854
Matthewmurray706,

I live in NE Ohio area, and around here most people I know have summer carry ammo & winter carry ammo. Sounds weird but in February it can get into the minus figures, folks bundle up... good folks and bad folks! However in summer it can get up into the high 90's, people dress a bit differently then. I think you know where I'm heading with this.

I just wanted to point out that in choosing CCW ammo; there are most definitely"other factors" to consider. My thoughts on “Home Defense” ammo are abit different, but not much.

I know this may sound very elementary but almost as important as which ammo to use - you need to put enough rounds through your gun so that whatever gun/ammo you are using they are not strangers to you. You MUST know how those rounds are going to shoot in your gun of choice.

Trust me... You have very little time to think/react when the s--t starts going down!

Last edited by Kentguy; 04-19-2012 at 16:18..
Kentguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 15:53   #24
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,136
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentguy View Post
Matthewmurray706,

I live in NE Ohio area, and around here most people I know have summer carry ammo & winter carry ammo. Sounds weird but in February it can get into the minus figures, folks bundle up... good folks and bad folks! However in summer it can get up into the high 90's, people dress a bit differently then. I think you know where I'm heading with this.

I just wanted to point out that in choosing CCW ammo; there are most definitely"other factors" to consider. My thoughts on “Home Defense” ammo are abit different, but not much.

I know this may sound very elementary but almost as important as which ammo to use - you need to put enough rounds through your gun so that whatever gun/ammo you are using they are not strangers to you. You MUST know how those rounds are going to shoot in your gun of choice.
]
I think too much is made out of winter clothing issues. Choose a good JHP that works well in 4 denim layers & just carry that all year, problem solved.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 04-20-2012 at 15:53..
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 19:37   #25
ADK_40GLKr
Senior Member
 
ADK_40GLKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: RFD NY Adks
Posts: 2,130
Blog Entries: 2
Gold Dots

Just my opinion, based on my reading, and SOME testing in water jugs, but I have seen some of the HP's with smaller openings fail to expand, and over penetrate.

I got good expansion from Gold Dots and they have a good reputation. I think Mas has recommended Gold Dots and Ranger T's.
__________________
Luke 22:36 He said to them, ď... if you donít have a Glock, sell your cloak and buy one."

NRA, GSSF, IDPA, NY voter.
ADK_40GLKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
9mm, ccw, concealed carry ammo, federal guard dog, home defense rounds
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 14:01.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,170
330 Members
840 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42