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Old 04-11-2012, 16:05   #1
nitesite10mm
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Zimmerman charged with murder 2nd

Let the scrutiny begin!
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Old 04-11-2012, 16:27   #2
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Old 04-11-2012, 17:42   #3
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This. I personally think this is going to blow up in the SA's face, but I guess we'll just sit back and see what happens, huh?
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Old 04-11-2012, 17:29   #4
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How does Murder two read in Florida?

Any examining trial options?

Why was a Grand Jury not used? Would they have tossed out the case?
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Old 04-11-2012, 23:26   #5
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How does Murder two read in Florida?

Any examining trial options?

Why was a Grand Jury not used? Would they have tossed out the case?
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Originally Posted by Florida SS 782.04(2)
The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life
I'm personally of the opinion that a grand jury wasn't used b/c the prosecutor thought she had a weak case and didn't want to be the one to put it before a grand jury and have it tossed out.
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Old 04-11-2012, 23:55   #6
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I dont know enough about the case to comment on specifics but based on the race mongering being thrown about in the media, even if zimmerman is found not guilty they the department of justice will go after him federally for whatever they can. This wont be over for years in the future. If he truely was justified it sucks to be him right now. I dont see him getting off this.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:25   #7
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I dont know enough about the case to comment on specifics but based on the race mongering being thrown about in the media, even if zimmerman is found not guilty they the department of justice will go after him federally for whatever they can. This wont be over for years in the future. If he truely was justified it sucks to be him right now. I dont see him getting off this.
The good thing is the Feds can't go after him like they did with the LAPD cops in Rodney King because they weren't acting under color of authority (1983 charges) but I guess they can always do the civil rights violation thing like they used against Klan members... then there's the matter of the civil lawsuits.

However, if he is exonerated on the SYG laws, does FL's version of SYG also preclude all civil liability? Some states have it where if you are protected criminally under their SYG, you are also immune civilly.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:12   #8
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but I guess they can always do the civil rights violation thing like they used against Klan members... then there's the matter of the civil lawsuits.
Actually, § 1983 comes from the Civil Rights Act of 1871 (Ku Klux Klan Act) and it requires acting under color of law - the section that doesn't require legal authority is § 1985 (also KKK Act), but it requires a conspiracy between 2 or more people.

What we figured out on another thread is that they could try federal hate crime laws, but since Zimmerman isn't white they wouldn't have much of a chance with that.
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Old 04-13-2012, 23:36   #9
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However, if he is exonerated on the SYG laws, does FL's version of SYG also preclude all civil liability? Some states have it where if you are protected criminally under their SYG, you are also immune civilly.
Yes. You are immune civilly.

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776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0776.032.html


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Old 04-11-2012, 19:43   #10
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I saw the story on the news. Al sharpton was right next to the mother of the "victim." This case has already been tried by the media. Interesting that the local police who responded to the scene did not feel that an arrest was called for. Now, 6 weeks later, jackson and sharpton have persuaded the local authorities to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder. Nice to see where the power lies in America today.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:23   #11
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I'm not surprised. Zimmerman was going to be thrown under the bus regardless of the evidence. Don't know how FL law reads, but involutary manslaughter might have been a more suitable charge, IMO.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:46   #12
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I saw the story on the news. Al sharpton was right next to the mother of the "victim." This case has already been tried by the media. Interesting that the local police who responded to the scene did not feel that an arrest was called for. Now, 6 weeks later, jackson and sharpton have persuaded the local authorities to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder. Nice to see where the power lies in America today.
Especially after seeing Holder buttsnorkling Sharpton today. Contemptible comes to mind.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...arpton-Trayvon
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Old 04-12-2012, 00:51   #13
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Especially after seeing Holder buttsnorkling Sharpton today. Contemptible comes to mind.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...arpton-Trayvon
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Old 04-12-2012, 00:54   #14
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Isn't America awesome? OJ gets away with murder. This guy will probably get life in prison if convicted. What a joke.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:49   #15
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I saw the story on the news. Al sharpton was right next to the mother of the "victim." This case has already been tried by the media. Interesting that the local police who responded to the scene did not feel that an arrest was called for.
I saw a report that the local cops requested manslaughter charges from the Prosecutors office.

Randy

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Old 04-11-2012, 21:15   #16
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With this media circus I do not see how this man will receive a fair trial. Regardless of personal opinions of the people in the state, this should have remained a state issue. But ... noooo in comes the rabble rousers, just like the sanhedrin rabble roused people and used false witnesses back in their era. Ironic that at least two of the Nation's most well known rabble rousers have the title Reverend appended to their names.

Quite frankly I hope he gets off Scott free. The war is reaching a roiling boiling point there. We might all of us should prepare for that eventuality that we will have to attempt to create order within the storms coming our way.
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Old 04-11-2012, 22:35   #17
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I saw the story on the news. Al sharpton was right next to the mother of the "victim." This case has already been tried by the media. Interesting that the local police who responded to the scene did not feel that an arrest was called for. Now, 6 weeks later, jackson and sharpton have persuaded the local authorities to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder. Nice to see where the power lies in America today.
No the local authorities were the ones who did not see any criminal activity on the part of Zimmerman. It took a "special" person to see things that the LEO's knew was not there ....
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Old 04-11-2012, 23:04   #18
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No the local authorities were the ones who did not see any criminal activity on the part of Zimmerman. It took a "special" person to see things that the LEO's knew was not there ....
This is not accurate. The lead investigator for Sanford wanted manslaughter charges filed but the district State prosecutor did not believe there was enough evidence at the time to file charges. The case was never over at that point and the investigation was ongoing. The media circus lead the FL Governor Scott to appoint a Special Prosecutor. There is nothing known at this time to suggest that the initial process would not have lead to a Grand Jury coming up with an indictment against Zimmerman if the process had been left alone to run its course.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:44   #19
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This is not accurate. The lead investigator for Sanford wanted manslaughter charges filed but the district State prosecutor did not believe there was enough evidence at the time to file charges. The case was never over at that point and the investigation was ongoing. The media circus lead the FL Governor Scott to appoint a Special Prosecutor. There is nothing known at this time to suggest that the initial process would not have lead to a Grand Jury coming up with an indictment against Zimmerman if the process had been left alone to run its course.
Well unless you have inside information, your statement is no more accurate than my statement.

You are just guessing like the rest of us are.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:31   #20
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Well unless you have inside information, your statement is no more accurate than my statement.

You are just guessing like the rest of us are.
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Originally Posted by Southswede Cop Talk
No the local authorities were the ones who did not see any criminal activity on the part of Zimmerman.


This is not accurate. The lead investigator for Sanford wanted manslaughter charges filed but the district State prosecutor did not believe there was enough evidence at the time to file charges.
I don't see anything that is in dispute with what is known about the case with this statement.

Quote:
The case was never over at that point and the investigation was ongoing. The media circus lead the FL Governor Scott to appoint a Special Prosecutor. There is nothing known at this time to suggest that the initial process would not have lead to a Grand Jury coming up with an indictment against Zimmerman if the process had been left alone to run its course,
Perhaps I have interpreted too much into this aspect of my statement, IDK. Corey said as much yesterday that they picked up the investigation at the time. I have yet to hear anything that suggests that the investigation was over for the initial prosecutor's office involved. There were those who interpreted that as having happened as no arrest had been made yet and people were getting impatient with the process. They were impatient that it took Corey's office another three weeks, which actually coincided with the initial plan for the Grand Jury to convene.

If my understanding is incorrect, then I'll acknowledge that when I am shown that is the case. Of course I speculated when I said the Grand Jury may have come to the same conclusion. Certainly they could have voted "no bill". What I was trying to point out is that I don't see where the process was ever derailed prior to Corey's appointment.
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Old 04-11-2012, 21:15   #21
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I saw a report that the local cops requested manslaughter charges from the Prosecutors office.

Randy
As did I, but an out-of-custody warrant for a lesser charge (which was denied, BTW) vs an on-scene arrest is quite a difference with regard to the amount of evidence and such that was readily available, I'd say. The fact that the department requested a lesser charge, were denied and the special prosecutor goes for a higher charge is intriguing to me, I must admit.

Personally, I think she shot herself in the foot going after ANY murder charge.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:51   #22
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As did I, but an out-of-custody warrant for a lesser charge (which was denied, BTW) vs an on-scene arrest is quite a difference with regard to the amount of evidence and such that was readily available, I'd say. The fact that the department requested a lesser charge, were denied and the special prosecutor goes for a higher charge is intriguing to me, I must admit.

Personally, I think she shot herself in the foot going after ANY murder charge.
So was the department's request for manslaughter charges denied way back when, or did it just take this long to figure out what the charges should be? Would explain how they ended up with murder 2 instead of the manslaughter charges the SPD requested?

But yeah, I agree, seems like they overcharged going for murder 2. For what that's worth, not being a lawyer or a cop....

Randy

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Old 04-12-2012, 06:38   #23
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now that he has been arested, the lynch mob has no problem finding him. the mob has all ready proved they can shut down a police station so, storming it and snaching him is no problem. let's all sing "we shall overcome".
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:28   #24
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How much have you all heard the shooting in Arizona where shooter is black and dead person is Hispanic?
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Old 04-11-2012, 21:44   #25
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Well... in FL, you do not need a grand jury to charge someone unless you are going after a first degree murder indictment. The prosecutor has discretion to charge lesser crimes and in this case, she hedged her bets on not getting an unpredictable grand jury which might not give her an indictment.

Even though double jeopardy does not attach at a grand jury proceeding, the prosecutor would have to seat another grand jury and go through it again to get the first degree indictment, costing time and money which they might not have or she might not have permission to do at this point.

Also, since this case is tried heavily in the media, if the grand jury does not indict, there will be political fallout on both sides of the equation, prosecution and defense, if there is a second grand jury. Would it be worth inflaming the race baiters if the first grand jury does not indict? That would be a consideration if I was prosecuting the case. Sad state of affairs that politics dictate the future of Zimmerman who is just a pawn now in the race game.

She went for the sure thing on the charge and went for the 2nd degree within her discretion so she can at least proceed on that theory.
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