[Bob Hafler]

It's only a little 22. How effective can it be? It can be effective enough to take a BG out of the fight.

How far will a .22 LR Kill? - YouTube

How far will a .22 LR Kill? - YouTube

[bac1023]

I wouldn't want to get hit by any 22, but there's no way the 22 short is an ideal SD round.

[Bob Hafler]

Originally Posted by bac1023

I wouldn't want to get hit by any 22, but there's no way the 22 short is an ideal SD round.

Agree and I don't think they were going in that direction when they said it will kill the crap out of you.

[Njanear]

At 1:47, he starts talking about the accuracy of the Minx at 15 yards but then converts everything to feet and comes up at 30.

GA Fellows: are these the guys from Moss Pawn?

[edcrosbys]

I love my 22. But I don't think of it as an "ideal self defense gun" as per the video.

Originally Posted by fiddletown

There are four ways in which shooting someone stops him:
1. psychological -- "I'm shot, it hurts, I don't want to get shot any more."
2. massive blood loss depriving the muscles and brain of oxygen and thus significantly impairing their ability to function
3. breaking major skeletal support structures
4. damaging the central nervous system.

So as a rule of thumb --
More holes are better than fewer holes.
Larger holes are better than smaller holes.
Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.
Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.
There are no magic bullets.

Why would anyone think that a .22 will be enough when sometimes a .357 Magnum isn't enough. LAPD Officer Stacy Lim was shot in the chest with a .357 Magnum and still ran down her attacker, returned fire, killed him, survived, and ultimately was able to return to duty.

[edcrosbys]

Since I was skeptical about the US Army and pine board, I went looking for it. Here is what I found:

Ballistic Characteristics of Wounding Agents
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksd...s/chapter2.htm

For many years, ordnance engineers had been using the penetration of 1-inch pine boards separated by a small air space (1 inch) for judging the relative efficiency of bullets. Subsequent investigation revealed this test to be far from precise because of variations in pine boards, as well as many other factors beyond reasonable control.

[Veedubklown]

Originally Posted by bac1023

I wouldn't want to get hit by any 22, but there's no way the 22 short is an ideal SD round.

I don't think they ever actually said "ideal", just effective. I don't want to stand in front of a BB gun. I'd be interested to see what 45ACP does at 450 yards, though. I bet it'd still be better than throwing a rock.

[Adjuster]

"It will kill the crap outta you"

Might be my new favorite tag line.

I kinda like these guys.


/

[Cream Soda Kid]

In 1979 a friend of mine was shot with a .22 caliber handgun. The shooter appeared to be a gang-banger.

My friend was hit in the right armpit, the bullet pierced the top part of his right lung, then went through the valves of his heart, then through his left lung and stopped at one of his ribs on the left side.

After the shooting, (the bad guy got away) my friend walked into the house under his own power. He didn’t know at the time if he had been hit or not. We looked at his chest and no wound was visible. We didn't know where the entry wound was at the time.

As we were checking him out, his eyes started to close and he went unconscious. The ambulance arrived.

He underwent surgery of course, his heart stopped 3 times while he was in surgery. His heart was permanently damaged and the surgeon implanted a pacemaker. He needed the device until he died a few years ago from an unrelated event.

[Adjuster]

When they are shooting the Mynx you can appear to hear the trigger press/click before the gun fires. Am I hearing this correctly? Or is this just some sort of camera/recording anomaly?


/

[glocked1]

I love when people talk about 22lr like they are toys.

[Brian Lee]

The .22LR is a caliber that will usually kill your best friend by accident almost every time. For SD, it will piss off the bad guy and only strengthen his resolve to kill you almost every time.

If you are a legal hunter, .22LR would let a large wounded animal get away almost every time. If you are a poacher, it will easily kill deer, sheep, pigs and elk with a head shot almost every time.

Squirrels & paper targets are about the only use where the results are not unpredictable - but I still love the .22LR for what it is.

[mac66]

"For SD, it will piss off the bad guy and only strengthen his resolve to kill you almost every time."

Sorry, you fail. Nobody wants to get shot, particularly more than once.

I investigated a bunch of shootings in my career. I don't care if the the bullet is a 22 or a 44, getting shot with anything will ruin your whole day.

[Cream Soda Kid]

Originally Posted by Brian Lee

The .22LR is a caliber that will usually kill your best friend by accident almost every time. For SD, it will piss off the bad guy and only strengthen his resolve to kill you almost every time.

If you are a legal hunter, .22LR would let a large wounded animal get away almost every time. If you are a poacher, it will easily kill deer, sheep, pigs and elk with a head shot almost every time.

Squirrels & paper targets are about the only use where the results are not unpredictable - but I still love the .22LR for what it is.

Yes I agree. I love my little Remington 597 .22 LR.

I take it to the range from time to time. It’s fun to shoot, it helps me maintain my marksmanship skills with a rifle. No, it’s not the same as shooting my Ruger Mini-30, but it’s still aiming through non-optical sights.

It’s cheap to shoot and it doesn’t beat me up when I shoot it.

[ratf51]

I asked this question in a posting at Rimfirecentral that was along this same topic:

I recall reading an article a few years ago about a study done in England in the early days of WWII. A fellow looked at the .22lr as a possible defense round that could be easily used by civilians should the Nazis invade. They utilized dummies dressed in German military uniforms and kit, and iirc, the study showed that at 400 yards the .22lr was getting a minimum of 1" (I assume it was some type of wood/board) penetration after passing through the uniform. Maybe not lethal in that context, but sufficient to wound and slow down an advance. I have recently searched for this article (I can't remember the source I read it from) or the study itself but have come up short. Has anyone else read about or heard of this?

[cowboywannabe]

SCHP Trooper was killed within 1 minute of being shot with a single .22lr fired from a mini revolver from NAA. Trooper fired 5 rounds of .38spl (from a .357 revolver) into the gut of the bad guy whom lived.

caliber does not make up for poor shot placement.

[slims00ls1z28]

Likewise they showed us a video in training where some bg shot a trooper in the armpit over the vest during a struggle and the trooper then shot the bg point blank in the face with a .357. Trooper died (not right off)the perp did not.

There's also a kid at the local JV who killed his grandfather with a BB gun (through the eye believe it or not) and a convict I know with a .45 ACP bullet still in his head walking around.

I'm still grabbing the guage or glock (or any other gun in the safe for that matter) over the .22's though unless I'm just plinking.

[Skykevver]

Njanear,

Yes, these are the guys from Moss Pawn.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[Frog1]

Like any caliber, it is very effective when used within it's design limits. It is not ideal for quick and intense encounters with human beings or large animals. It is better than a stick, knife, or rock or calling 911.

It takes some time for it's terminal damage to manifest itself. But let no one with any brains at all think it won't kill you. And it can buy time in a struggle if used properly to evade the situation.

[Mongosafari]

I ran across this a while back:
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

In the right circumstance it could be used to take the "fight" out of someone...

[wjv]

The .22 gets improved lethality when it's shot from a bad *** looking gun:



But seriously, neither extreme is correct.

The .22 is not a toy only good for killing mice.
It also won't drop a bad guy at 400 yards with one shot (unless you're really lucky)

The .22 has it limitation.
In a self defense situation, armed with only a .22 you might have to modify your tactics.
- Perhaps go for a head shot instead of center of mass?
- Don't expect that you can shoot through barriers such as a car door.
- Don't expect one shot stops.
- Use the lack of recoil for lots of quick followup shots.

A lot depends on how the other person(s) is armed, and how competent of a shot that person is. If you have a .22 rifle and the other person has a snubby .38, distance could be your friend. A lot more people can hit a man size target at 100 yards with a Marlin 60 than with a 2" S&W bodyguard. When I have my .22 with me I typically have 100+ rounds of ammo with me. Depending on the situation that could be an advantage.

Many .22s are mini or pocket size, hence you might be able to get you hand around the grip of the gun before the situation escalates.

I had a situation 30+ years ago in Chicago (where I grew up). Neighborhood thug and buddies thought it would be fun to torment me as I was walking down the alley near our home. Pulled a knife out wand was waving it literally inches from my face. Couldn't figure out why I wasn't scared. (actually I was but was trying not to show it). He made a comment that I must not believe that he would stick me because I didn't look scared. . I responded that I didn't look scared because he had a .25 caliber gun aimed at his gut and he would die first. Pulled the gun out of my jacket pocket just enough so he could see I wasn't joking. . He and his friend decide it was a good time to leave me alone and go back into their back yard.

Please note. . I was ~22 at the time and this was 30+ years ago. So don't tell me how stupid I was at the time. . I already am aware of that!!! But the point is that it did work. I had my hand in my pocket and wrapped around that (crappy Jennings) .25 before the guy had even pulled his knife out.

Every situation will be different. If the BG has an AR-10 in .308. you could be in deep do-do. .

Obviously evading and avoiding the gunfight is the best option most of the time.

Every weapon has limits. Know the limits and strengths and try to leverage the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses.

[concretefuzzynuts]

Owners of mouse gun calibers are instructed to aim for the neck, face, eyes and if you must stick the muzzle in an attackers ear. Having said that I would not like to rely on a .22 for defense but it beats nothing.

[Hdoc]

Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts

Owners of mouse gun calibers are instructed to aim for the neck, face, eyes and if you must stick the muzzle in an attackers ear. Having said that I would not like to rely on a .22 for defense but it beats nothing.

What ? You have a source for this? It's so wrong on so many levels.
Center of Mass is the only instruction regardless of caliber
I've ever seen.

[concretefuzzynuts]

Originally Posted by Hdoc

What ? You have a source for this? It's so wrong on so many levels.
Center of Mass is the only instruction regardless of caliber
I've ever seen.

Yes, the .22 can kill/stop, but it is a simple fact that larger caliber rounds perform better for handgun stopping than smaller rounds. Do your homework before posting.

[concretefuzzynuts]

Originally Posted by Hdoc

What ? You have a source for this? It's so wrong on so many levels.
Center of Mass is the only instruction regardless of caliber
I've ever seen.

I was answering this challenge.