[TN.Frank]

I know there are some of us here on the forum who feel that the good ol' 38Spl(especially in the +P loading) is more then adequate for self defense, especially out of small frame revolvers BUT it seems like many want to poo poo this neat ctg. as being under powered or just plain inadequate for a self defense round.
LEO's use it for decades and granted, the LRN ammo they used WASN'T the best but with proper ammo this little round does a pretty good job IMHO.
So, at what point did people start thinking that the 38Spl just wasn't good enough to get the job done for a civilian self defense round?

[ZekerMan]

Well......its not a 10mm but the .38 will get the job done IMHO if put in the correct place. I have 3 revolvers placed around the homestead loaded with .38+P just in case.

[michael e]

I still carry one, I fell it's a good round still.

[Eric2340]

That's what is in the old lady's and Mom's .357s both(S&W 686 and 66), b/c both of them can get GOOD hits w/ them.


Works for them!


.

[Feanor]

I carry .38 spl all the time, choose your ammo wisely, and it's all you will likely ever need.

[ca survivor]

Originally Posted by Feanor

I carry .38 spl all the time, choose your ammo wisely, and it's all you will likely ever need.

nice pair of wheel guns you have there, but they are .357 magnums right?

[Nestor]

Do You feel like some more powerful gun is needed now?

[Feanor]

Originally Posted by ca survivor

nice pair of wheel guns you have there, but they are .357 magnums right?

They are indeed, though the little model 66 has never tasted a single .357 magnum cartridge, that duty is left to the 686. A thing I do with short barreled revolvers like the 2.5" model-66 intended for defensive carry, is restrict them to soft point bullets. PENETRATION is king! JHP's in my experience are dismal performers from such short barreled .38/.357 revolvers, either failing to open, or in the case of the 110 gr +P+ Ranger load, opening up to quickly and fragmenting.

[MannyA]

Originally Posted by Feanor

I carry .38 spl all the time, choose your ammo wisely, and it's all you will likely ever need.

Could that have to do with your being a "senior" member?

[bac1023]

I actually think its better than ever with today's ammo.

[Ronaldo]

People aren't any tougher these days, so the .38 is as deadly, or maybe deadlier, that it ever was. I think is has little to do with performance; sometimes things just go out of fashion. The nines and forties are just so much more coolio!

Even though .38 Sp. isn't 'fashionable', it has served me well for many years. It's not so much that the cartridge is weak or impotent, it's that these days cops and some self-taught 'combat' shooters aren't very good shots so they depend on spray 'n pray when the going gets tough.

Unless an adversary is a mutant or on some drug, most folks will respond to being plugged by ceasing the activity that caused the hole to be put into them. I for one still depend on the good 'ol reliable .38 much of the time. I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything except quantity. 15 is nice, but sometime, or most times, 5 will do the job.

So I believe it is more than 'enough'. Like money, you get the best return from bullets placed wisely, not scattered all over the landscape.

I wouldn't normally respond to a thread like this but I was recently at my favorite indoor range, and watching the Gecko45 wannabees blasting away at three yards yielding shotgun-like patterns made me wonder if any of these young guys have a clue how bad they are? Sadly, a lot of rounds never made it onto the paper.... and won't on the bad guy either.

Ronaldo

[M&P15T]

Originally Posted by Ronaldo

People aren't any tougher these days, so the .38 is as deadly, or maybe deadlier, that it ever was. I think is has little to do with performance; sometimes things just go out of fashion. The nines and forties are just so much more coolio!

Even though .38 Sp. isn't 'fashionable', it has served me well for many years. It's not so much that the cartridge is weak or impotent, it's that these days cops and some self-taught 'combat' shooters aren't very good shots so they depend on spray 'n pray when the going gets tough.

Unless an adversary is a mutant or on some drug, most folks will respond to being plugged by ceasing the activity that caused the hole to be put into them. I for one still depend on the good 'ol reliable .38 much of the time. I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything except quantity. 15 is nice, but sometime, or most times, 5 will do the job.

So I believe it is more than 'enough'. Like money, you get the best return from bullets placed wisely, not scattered all over the landscape.

I wouldn't normally respond to a thread like this but I was recently at my favorite indoor range, and watching the Gecko45 wannabees blasting away at three yards yielding shotgun-like patterns made me wonder if any of these young guys have a clue how bad they are? Sadly, a lot of rounds never made it onto the paper.... and won't on the bad guy either.

Ronaldo

People aren't tougher, they're just better armed. Bad guys are packing better stuff these days, so it's just an arms race one must keep up with. Plus, many times attackers are found to be under the influence of narcotics, and that is why multiple hits and capacity is a big bonus. It's not about going out of "fashion", it's the reality of changing times and threats.

Revolvers are over-matched fire power wise to modern autos, so that's why most people understand that cartridges like .38 in a revolver is not the best choice for HD/CCW.

Spray & pray? How many times have you been in a gun fight? Please share with the class how you stood still and took careful, aimed shots with your .38 snubby while being shot at.

I love how you and other people talk about how this pistol or that cartridge has "served" them well.......when by "served" 99% of people mean it's what's easy and covenient to carry. Get in an actual gun fight, face and armed assailant (or mutiple assailants) and that little .38 revolver in your hand is going to feel like a single shot derringer.

[hogship]

Originally Posted by M&P15T

People aren't tougher, they're just better armed. Bad guys are packing better stuff these days, so it's just an arms race one must keep up with. Plus, many times attackers are found to be under the influence of narcotics, and that is why multiple hits and capacity is a big bonus. It's not about going out of "fashion", it's the reality of changing times and threats.

Revolvers are over-matched fire power wise to modern autos, so that's why most people understand that cartridges like .38 in a revolver is not the best choice for HD/CCW.

Spray & pray? How many times have you been in a gun fight? Please share with the class how you stood still and took careful, aimed shots with your .38 snubby while being shot at.

I love how you and other people talk about how this pistol or that cartridge has "served" them well.......when by "served" 99% of people mean it's what's easy and covenient to carry. Get in an actual gun fight, face and armed assailant (or mutiple assailants) and that little .38 revolver in your hand is going to feel like a single shot derringer.

An excellent post..........^

[sharpshooter]

Originally Posted by Ronaldo

People aren't any tougher these days, so the .38 is as deadly, or maybe deadlier, that it ever was.

Ronaldo

Actually, we ARE. Americans these days are taller and heavier than we were 50 years ago. Look it up. We're also stronger and healthier. And most importantly, 50 years ago, hard drug use was nowhere as prevelent as it is today. Especially meth.

People are a lot different now!

[Nestor]

Originally Posted by sharpshooter

Actually, we ARE. Americans these days are taller and heavier than we were 50 years ago. Look it up. We're also stronger and healthier. And most importantly, 50 years ago, hard drug use was nowhere as prevelent as it is today. Especially meth.

People are a lot different now!

So is .38 Special.
Nowadays it's much better round in +P with JHP bullet then ever before.

[fastbolt]

sns3guppy, good post.

It was interesting to recognize some remembered feelings and perspectives from your apt descriptions.

The sense of self action without conscious thought that occurs when the "observer mode" slides into place without warning is both disquieting, and yet oddly comforting.

[Veedubklown]

Originally Posted by bac1023

I actually think its better than ever with today's ammo.

Don't think I've ever disagreed with ya Bac, and I sure wouldn't start now!

This also being said for .380 and .410. There's been huge advances across all ranges of ammo, but the developments for these 3 cartridges in the last 5 years has been insane.

[Jason D]

I have no problem carrying a 4" K-Frame in .38 Special.

[speedway]

Originally Posted by Jason D

I have no problem carrying a 4" K-Frame in .38 Special.

I have a 2" K-frame in my pocket as I am typing this.

[gunowner1]

Originally Posted by speedway

I have a 2" K-frame in my pocket as I am typing this.

I have a 3" K Frame on my desk as i type this.

[3000fps]

A friend of the family carried a little .38 SPL for over 15 years without ever changing the ammo or opening the cylinder. He did a lot of brick work and carried mexican style all through the years.

The gun had to be essentially junked because it was so caked with sweat that the cylinder was locked shut and unable to open.

That was a case of negligence on his part, but interesting none the less.

Check this video out,

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[ca survivor]

my only use for the .38 Special is a J frame as a BUG.

[samurairabbi]

Originally Posted by TN.Frank

So, at what point did people start thinking that the 38Spl just wasn't good enough to get the job done for a civilian self defense round?

It wasn't really the CARTRIDGE that faded from favor; it was the REVOLVER that shoots it. Starting in the late 1980's, the autoloading handgun took off in public perception, even in the 9mm caliber, because of its ammo capacity and possible rate of fire. The rimmed .38spl cartridge could not be easily adapted to such a handgun.

Also, the 38spl is limited by its low pressure. It could not be "improved" to operate at a SUBSTANTIALLY higher pressure with different powders, because of all the handguns in that caliber still floating around. The +P variant was about all that could have been done.

[pennlineman]

The .38 spl has been and probably always will be my favorite cartridge. I've never been concerned with what the latest fad is though. It has stood the test of time.

[NeverMore1701]

I have no problem with the round, I don't so much like being limited to 5 shots, slow reloads, and mediocre sites.