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Old 12-22-2011, 13:11   #1
45reloader
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How long after the fall will they come for our resources

Do you worry starving nations will send millions of people to our bread basket after the fall. Let's face it after all exports of food cease we might get massive numbers of starving people willing to do anything to survive.
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Old 12-22-2011, 13:40   #2
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The only way they could get here is by walking so it would just be Canada and Mexico. Seems to me we already have a problem with millions of unwanted coming here.

The question is, what are WE going to do when all the oil stops flowing? Drill baby, drill.
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Old 12-22-2011, 13:49   #3
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How would they send them? How would they get here? Swim?

Seriously, I think that threat is extremely low as the only connection between us and the starving world is two oceans and an arctic ice cap.

Central Americans on the Equator live in a region of plentiful food and dependable growing climate. Anyone who did march North en masse would have to survive crossing Mexico...and then be met by our forces on our border. That process (and our matching defensive preps) would transpire over many months. It would be more likely that North Americans march south to where the food is.

Millions of people cannot simply be placed into non-existent fleets of boats and then be shipped to North America. Unless you are simply trying to feed the fishes.

There isn't even an aggressor military force on planet Earth that could do that with their troops. Not even the Chinese.

You've got no worries on that count.

After a Total Fall? A toe-hold military invasion of a few points of desirable territory (HA?, FLA?, coastal Texas? NW California?)? Maybe. But not millions or even hundreds of thousands of invaders. More like a couple thousand or less in an post-apocalyptic world.

Moving troops requires aircraft and ships...which require fuel and technical infrastructure. Otherwise, you'd need several decades to redevelop an Age-of-Sail Navy that could mount a localized landing.

By that time, our children would be full-blown AR-totin', Mad Max ridin', Cannibal Warriors waiting for free lunch to arrive on the beaches.

Last edited by Chindo18Z; 12-22-2011 at 17:36..
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Old 12-22-2011, 14:29   #4
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First off, they'll be to hungry to come very far so as long as you don't live near the borders you'll be fine and second off, we're armed(or should be) so we should be able to defend ourselves against a bunch of half starved folks.
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:24   #5
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Originally Posted by Chindo18Z View Post
How would they send them? How would they get here? Swim?

Millions of people cannot simply be placed into non-existent fleets of boats and then be shipped to North America. Unless you are simply trying to feed the fishes.
Not saying it will ever happen but I found this part of your post very funny.

How do you think the Vikings did it? Ever hear about Chris Columbus? How about the Mayflower? Do you know how the slaves came here from Africa?

Ship building does not require electricity or oil.

Just saying.
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Old 12-23-2011, 13:38   #6
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Not saying it will ever happen but I found this part of your post very funny.

How do you think the Vikings did it? Ever hear about Chris Columbus? How about the Mayflower? Do you know how the slaves came here from Africa?

Ship building does not require electricity or oil.
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Just saying.
No ****.

If you read my post & the OP's, you'd realize that millions of starving people are not going to make it across the ATLANTIC or PACIFIC oceans without significant lead time (measured in years) needed to:

1. Build the requisite boats & ships
2. Train enough sailors to a level of competency to make such voyages
3. Train, equip, and support a necessary military invasion force

Societies who are unable to make a go of rice, corn, millet, wheat, or potato crops do not automatically possess the default knowledge, raw materials, or skills necessary to build ships and sail their populations around the planet. Kind of hard to build wooden boats...when you have already deforested your food-short landscape.

Now...if their local regimes simply push starving people out to sea as boat people...the sharks and gulls will be well fed...and a lucky few will wash up on our shores.

What happens after that is dependent upon how well armed all parties are at that time and how charitable (or hungry) Americans & Canadians are feeling on that day.

Did you ever notice how few Vikings were found alive in North America as later European settlers spread westward during a four centuries long period of colonization?

The Vikings were superlative sailors and colonizers who barely eked out a transitory toehold in North America. The Pilgrims were a paltry few hundred religious zealots who died like flies while their betters to the south were making a pretty good financial go of the Virginia Colony. The Spanish failed in their attempt to wrest North American suzerainty precisely because they could never generate enough colonists or military strength to maintain their holdings against the English, the French, the Texans, the Comanches, the Kiowas, or the Apaches. Africans were brought to the continent after mass capture by their own black tribal leaders and/or Arab slave traders... and further sale to Europeans for labor in the New World. Look up Trans-Atlantic Triangular Trade System (Sugar - Rum - Slaves).

No. Millions of starving people are not going to descend on North America. They will simply die in place instead...just as millions of starving people across the world have done in the past.

Just sayin'.

Last edited by Chindo18Z; 12-23-2011 at 13:41..
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Old 12-23-2011, 18:38   #7
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Originally Posted by Chindo18Z View Post
No ****.

If you read my post & the OP's, you'd realize that millions of starving people are not going to make it across the ATLANTIC or PACIFIC oceans without significant lead time (measured in years) needed to:

1. Build the requisite boats & ships
2. Train enough sailors to a level of competency to make such voyages
3. Train, equip, and support a necessary military invasion force

Societies who are unable to make a go of rice, corn, millet, wheat, or potato crops do not automatically possess the default knowledge, raw materials, or skills necessary to build ships and sail their populations around the planet. Kind of hard to build wooden boats...when you have already deforested your food-short landscape.

Now...if their local regimes simply push starving people out to sea as boat people...the sharks and gulls will be well fed...and a lucky few will wash up on our shores.

What happens after that is dependent upon how well armed all parties are at that time and how charitable (or hungry) Americans & Canadians are feeling on that day.

Did you ever notice how few Vikings were found alive in North America as later European settlers spread westward during a four centuries long period of colonization?

The Vikings were superlative sailors and colonizers who barely eked out a transitory toehold in North America. The Pilgrims were a paltry few hundred religious zealots who died like flies while their betters to the south were making a pretty good financial go of the Virginia Colony. The Spanish failed in their attempt to wrest North American suzerainty precisely because they could never generate enough colonists or military strength to maintain their holdings against the English, the French, the Texans, the Comanches, the Kiowas, or the Apaches. Africans were brought to the continent after mass capture by their own black tribal leaders and/or Arab slave traders... and further sale to Europeans for labor in the New World. Look up Trans-Atlantic Triangular Trade System (Sugar - Rum - Slaves).

No. Millions of starving people are not going to descend on North America. They will simply die in place instead...just as millions of starving people across the world have done in the past.

Just sayin'.
Maybe I am confused about the topic- Seems to me that in this day and age there are enough countries with the resources and skills needed to make such a migration. Not millions at once but over time and given the reproductive nature of humans, perhaps. Again if you read my post - I didn't say I thought it would ever actually happen.

Thanks for your well thought out reply! I appreciate your wit and humor...
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Old 12-27-2011, 16:08   #8
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By that time, our children would be full-blown AR-totin', Mad Max ridin', Cannibal Warriors waiting for free lunch to arrive on the beaches.
Now that is sig worthy. What a well crafted paragraph, made me laugh out loud.
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Old 12-22-2011, 20:21   #9
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Before this happens, the US Government will try to confiscate ptivatley held food to feed those that did not prepare- redistribution, baby! IIRC, FEMA has this in their regs somewhere.

I am surpised that the gov. does not encourage all citizens to stockpile food for a year or two, groing as far as to make suggested list available, tax breaks, ect ect. This would create a reseve of food, creted out of federal budgets, yet available to the Gove when the balloon goes up.
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Old 12-22-2011, 21:36   #10
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This would create a reseve of food, creted out of federal budgets, yet available to the Gove when the balloon goes up.
Why wouldn't they just do it themselves then? Would save all the hassle/expense of going door to door tens of millions of times to collect food.
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Old 12-22-2011, 23:20   #11
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It puts resource in comunities, localized, that they do not have to pay for or transport.
They can use the "see, we took this from those evil rich people' angle to gain popular support, ect.
Just a thought, did not say it was the master plan.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:24   #12
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:08   #13
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I would be much more worried about "government" coming for crops, livestock, and stores than I would a water-walking foreign zombie invasion force. You don't need foreign boogeymen when you have sociopaths right here at home.
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Old 12-26-2011, 19:29   #14
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I would be much more worried about "government" coming for crops, livestock, and stores than I would a water-walking foreign zombie invasion force. You don't need foreign boogeymen when you have sociopaths right here at home.
This is what I thought the thread was about when I read the title...the gov. coming for our stuff. Didn't Mao do this? Aren't there a few governments STILL doing this? (Just not ones we can benefit from by stepping in to help the people)

As far as the illegal freeloaders already here...I doubt they'd do well AFTER a fall or DURING a SHTF. They are pretty much useless/unskilled and can only do things a step or two higher than most primates. I think the problem is going to be keeping flammable items away from them. Molotov's can be a b**** even for the best S&Pers.

I do think American's have become slightly more aggressive/defensive in the last decade or so. But I still think massive chunks are hoping/depending on LEO/Gov. to protect them. THEY will be chewed up and spit out, even by the unskilled aggressors, so long as they have anything other than fists...sharp sticks would probably even work.

Getting here can be done in a plethora of ways as the cartels have shown us. Everything from floating doors to submarines work in small pockets. I don't think anything would work in large numbers. Not for very long anyway.

One thing that might help is cooking up a few English recipes en mass. Then leave it hidden in conspicuous spaces, kinda like they do with primates at the zoo...that should be enough to make them get back on their door and paddle back to where they came from.

-Emt1581

Last edited by emt1581; 12-26-2011 at 19:31..
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:45   #15
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This is what I thought the thread was about when I read the title...the gov. coming for our stuff. Didn't Mao do this? Aren't there a few governments STILL doing this? (Just not ones we can benefit from by stepping in to help the people)
Every government has done this (ours included). It's what government does.

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As far as the illegal freeloaders already here...I doubt they'd do well AFTER a fall or DURING a SHTF. They are pretty much useless/unskilled and can only do things a step or two higher than most primates. I think the problem is going to be keeping flammable items away from them. Molotov's can be a b**** even for the best S&Pers.
While keeping the 'golden hoards' at bay is certainly a prep consideration, I posit that the majority of "bug out-ers" will die miserable deaths not too far from home. The majority of urbanites who stay put will either die different but equally miserable deaths, or be corralled. This would apply equally regardless of ones immigration status. Either way, the amount of time spent on defense against the hoard is vastly disproportionate to the threat. The real threat is how do you defend yourself and your property against the state, whether that is federal, state, county, or local-level. In this regard, overt force is less useful than relationships in the community and a relatively low profile.

Quote:
I do think American's have become slightly more aggressive/defensive in the last decade or so. But I still think massive chunks are hoping/depending on LEO/Gov. to protect them. THEY will be chewed up and spit out, even by the unskilled aggressors, so long as they have anything other than fists...sharp sticks would probably even work.
I would take my chances against non-state aggressors. It's the LEO/Gov that is most concerning. I state this based on the track record of history, which is nearly universally supportive of this position. In fact, few areas of history are as one-sided as this one.
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:23   #16
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look up 1917 russia.
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Old 12-23-2011, 13:33   #17
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Yeah, you know because when they don't have enough food, they're going to be liberal enough with their supplies, and workers will work for free to build boats, to ship people who have never piloted a boat, across an ocean......


Cutting down a few trees, and nailing them togeather, does not mean you suddenly became an ocean fairing captain.
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Old 12-23-2011, 18:48   #18
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Yeah, you know because when they don't have enough food, they're going to be liberal enough with their supplies, and workers will work for free to build boats, to ship people who have never piloted a boat, across an ocean......


Cutting down a few trees, and nailing them togeather, does not mean you suddenly became an ocean fairing captain.
Since the OP was extremely vague as to just what event would cause this to happen and he did ask HOW LONG? I have to imagine that any sensible action on the part of any one of scores of developed countries would require haste while resources are available and not waiting until they are at death's door.

If you want to spin a vague question about a far fetched idea to the worst possible scenario so be it.

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Old 12-23-2011, 19:18   #19
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When will "who" come for our stuff?

I think that it will be city, county and state governments who figure out that some folks have stuff that they would like to have.
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Old 12-24-2011, 23:18   #20
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Since the OP was extremely vague as to just what event would cause this to happen and he did ask HOW LONG? I have to imagine that any sensible action on the part of any one of scores of developed countries would require haste while resources are available and not waiting until they are at death's door.

If you want to spin a vague question about a far fetched idea to the worst possible scenario so be it.



If they're developed countries, why wouldn't they focus their efforts on something that actually has the ability to help, rather than building boats for a mass exodus, that isn't going to solve anything?

It was a stupid question, much like the argument of "well the vikings did it without technology."
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