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Old 05-16-2011, 13:47   #1
Old Junes
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Protect Yourself Without Ever Firing a Shot?

I am wondering what the ramifications (legal or otherwise) would be of pulling your gun to diffuse a situation or prevent a crime from happening without ever firing a shot. As a responsible CCW permit holder I am well versed in the instances where deadly force would be justified in my state. That said, if pulling a gun deescalated a situation without the use of deadly force it seems to me that would be greatly preferred. Thoughts?
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Old 05-16-2011, 13:54   #2
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Don't pull your gun unless you are going to kill somebody with it. If you just yank it out to try and scare somebody out of what they are doing you more than likely will end up in jail. I wouldn't draw unless the situation is bad enough to pull the trigger. Don't worry about somebody commiting a crime, you are not the police, just report it. As for a situation, unless it involves you directly and you have a VERY good reason to believe your life is in danger right then, keep it in the holster.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:12   #3
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Every state has different laws on brandishing a firearm. In some states like Texas it is allowed if it is to defuse or stop a crime. What you need to do is check with your state and see what the rules are

I bought a book that has been very helpful to me on what can and can't be done. the book is self defence laws in all fifty states by mich veto. at the time it was 29.95 with free shipping but well worth the dollar
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Old 05-16-2011, 21:49   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLaw View Post
Don't pull your gun unless you are going to kill somebody with it. If you just yank it out to try and scare somebody out of what they are doing you more than likely will end up in jail. I wouldn't draw unless the situation is bad enough to pull the trigger. Don't worry about somebody commiting a crime, you are not the police, just report it. As for a situation, unless it involves you directly and you have a VERY good reason to believe your life is in danger right then, keep it in the holster.
You wouldn't skin it to save somebody else's life? If a BG has a gun pointed at somebody else's head? Or if somebody's on the ground being kicked, stomped, and beaten to a bloody pulp by more BG's than you could stop by yourself?

Or are you saying in those situations that you would actually shoot?
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:46   #5
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Originally Posted by BigLaw View Post
Don't pull your gun unless you are going to kill somebody with it. If you just yank it out to try and scare somebody out of what they are doing you more than likely will end up in jail. I wouldn't draw unless the situation is bad enough to pull the trigger. Don't worry about somebody commiting a crime, you are not the police, just report it. As for a situation, unless it involves you directly and you have a VERY good reason to believe your life is in danger right then, keep it in the holster.
I couldn't have said it any better.
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Old 05-17-2011, 19:46   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLaw View Post
Don't pull your gun unless you are going to kill somebody with it. If you just yank it out to try and scare somebody out of what they are doing you more than likely will end up in jail. I wouldn't draw unless the situation is bad enough to pull the trigger. Don't worry about somebody commiting a crime, you are not the police, just report it. As for a situation, unless it involves you directly and you have a VERY good reason to believe your life is in danger right then, keep it in the holster.
This is a thread that needed only one reply post and this was it.

It appears some people could use a bit more training, a bit more maturity, or a bit more intelligence.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:07   #7
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Thats a tough one. I think I would pull my gun to try and diffuse a situation.

In a situation like that I would be more worried about the present than the future. If pulling a gun out is going to make the bad guy go away I would do that rather than let him keep the ball in his court.


Besides if you pull your gun on someone and they leave your 99% of the time going to be following that situation up with a call to the police so they can try and find the guy.

You think your going to get arrested for pulling a gun? Maybe you will but that's one of those things you just gotta deal with it if it happens. I don't think any cop in his/her right mind would try to arrest you for responsibly defending yourself.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:03   #8
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Originally Posted by djpuffnstuff View Post

...I don't think any cop in his/her right mind would try to arrest you for responsibly defending yourself.
No? Read this.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:28   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Junes View Post
I am wondering what the ramifications (legal or otherwise) would be of pulling your gun to diffuse a situation or prevent a crime from happening without ever firing a shot. As a responsible CCW permit holder I am well versed in the instances where deadly force would be justified in my state. That said, if pulling a gun deescalated a situation without the use of deadly force it seems to me that would be greatly preferred. Thoughts?
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Originally Posted by gomerpyle View Post
Well we have brandishing laws, but when it comes down to close friends and family I would do almost anything to make sure they as well as I, am protected. So this can go both ways, and depends greatly on the situation. It comes down to you're not a LEO. Pull the gun when you tend to use it, which means pulling the trigger, in a life or death situation. Not saying 100% of the time when you pull your gun, you shoot, but your mind should already be prepared and ready to pull the trigger. If your only intentions are to "diffuse" the situation with the "sight" of your firearm, call 911 and let them handle it. Otherwise, your gun doesn't need to be unholstered. Thankfully I've never had to use my guns in a self defense situation, but that's how I've always been taught before and after acquiring my CPL.
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Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
Every state has different laws on brandishing a firearm. In some states like Texas it is allowed if it is to defuse or stop a crime. What you need to do is check with your state and see what the rules are

I bought a book that has been very helpful to me on what can and can't be done. the book is self defence laws in all fifty states by mich veto. at the time it was 29.95 with free shipping but well worth the dollar
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Originally Posted by packsaddle View Post
Depends on the crime.

The threat of deadly force is only permitted when the use of deadly force is permitted.
As a general rule, if a situation does not justify the use of deadly force then you would be in the wrong to "threaten to use deadly force" (which is what your are doing when you draw the gun...whether you say anything or not...the threat is implied by you simply presenting the weapon).

So, in a nutshell:
If the situation justifies the use of deadly force, you are safe to draw.
If the situation does not justify the use of deadly force, you may not be safe to draw.

If you've got no intention of shooting, you've got no business drawing. That does not mean that if you draw you must shoot, just that if you draw you darn well better be "ready, willing, & able" to shoot.
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Last edited by dosei; 05-17-2011 at 08:30..
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:37   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
As a general rule, if a situation does not justify the use of deadly force then you would be in the wrong to "threaten to use deadly force" (which is what your are doing when you draw the gun...whether you say anything or not...the threat is implied by you simply presenting the weapon).

So, in a nutshell:
If the situation justifies the use of deadly force, you are safe to draw.
If the situation does not justify the use of deadly force, you may not be safe to draw.

If you've got no intention of shooting, you've got no business drawing. That does not mean that if you draw you must shoot, just that if you draw you darn well better be "ready, willing, & able" to shoot.
Bingo. (for most states)

.....just that if you draw you darn well better be "ready, willing, able & legal" to shoot.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:45   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimp View Post
Where in that article was he defending himself? Without getting into all the emotion of Open Carry... where exactly was that clown arrested for defending himself? He was arrested for open carrying (whether it was a proper arrest or not, is for the court to decide).

There's other examples(and frankly, far better ones) of people being arrested after a self defense incident, that would have been better to point out.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:10   #12
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As far as I know, the only diffusing to be done with a drawn weapon is when the perp hits the ground.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:11   #13
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Well we have brandishing laws, but when it comes down to close friends and family I would do almost anything to make sure they as well as I, am protected. So this can go both ways, and depends greatly on the situation. It comes down to you're not a LEO. Pull the gun when you tend to use it, which means pulling the trigger, in a life or death situation. Not saying 100% of the time when you pull your gun, you shoot, but your mind should already be prepared and ready to pull the trigger. If your only intentions are to "diffuse" the situation with the "sight" of your firearm, call 911 and let them handle it. Otherwise, your gun doesn't need to be unholstered. Thankfully I've never had to use my guns in a self defense situation, but that's how I've always been taught before and after acquiring my CPL.

Last edited by gomerpyle; 05-16-2011 at 14:12..
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:31   #14
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In some states like Texas it is allowed if it is to defuse or stop a crime.
Depends on the crime.

The threat of deadly force is only permitted when the use of deadly force is permitted.
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:11   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packsaddle View Post
Depends on the crime.

The threat of deadly force is only permitted when the use of deadly force is permitted.
this is what texas says.........
9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person
is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.31;
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
would not have retreated; and
(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not
apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time
of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the
habitation of the actor.
notice it does not give a degree of the crime, but the crime itself

how a lawyer looks at it

The Burden of Proof for Self-Defense

In any criminal case, the prosecution's main goal is to show that a crime was committed. In this instance, the prosecution must simply show that a weapon was brandished, which qualifies as assault. Whenever a defendant chooses to argue self-defense in a case, the burden of proof falls on the defendant, not the prosecution.

This means that the defendant must prove that the need for self-defense justified the commission of assault. If the defendant cannot successfully argue that self-defense was necessary, s/he may be found guilty of assault or aggravated assault.

Because self-defense can be a difficult argument to make in an assault case, it is important to seek the advice and assistance of an experienced criminal defense attorney. A criminal attorney can gather all evidence relevant to your case to help you construct a strong defense to your assault charge.

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Old 05-18-2011, 11:36   #16
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I think people overthink this subject, and I'm sure dangerous situations are very often diffused by the simple act of brandishing. BG is being bad, CCW holder pulls gun, BG sh&ts his pants and runs away, end of story.
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Old 05-18-2011, 17:47   #17
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Originally Posted by Captains1911 View Post
I think people overthink this subject, and I'm sure dangerous situations are very often diffused by the simple act of brandishing. BG is being bad, CCW holder pulls gun, BG sh&ts his pants and runs away, end of story.
And if the bad guy doesn't run away?
Whatcha gonna do now Willis?
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Old 05-18-2011, 18:13   #18
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Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
And if the bad guy doesn't run away?
Whatcha gonna do now Willis?
I think we have people arguing over things that they might actually agree on.

You must be willing, able and justified to use the deadly force before drawing the gun. But people arguing of the "run away" scenario are trying to point out that just because you had to pull, you may not always have to shoot, or be legal if you shoot. The run away scenario is a prime example.

I've read that for an average carrier, it takes between 1 and 1.5 seconds to draw from concealment and put a shot on target. Well trained and practiced may be a bit faster. Alot can change in 1 second, and the shooting may no longer be justified.

Of course if the attack continues, you must have the absolute resolve to end the encounter with the force you have presented by drawing the weapon.

Last edited by Jayock; 05-18-2011 at 18:14..
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:34   #19
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And if the bad guy doesn't run away?
Whatcha gonna do now Willis?
If the bad guy continues the life threatening act, then he goes down, you don't pull it if you aren't prepared to use it. But if the act of drawing it causes him to stop whatever threatening behavior he was exhibiting, then great.
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Old 05-18-2011, 23:02   #20
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I think people overthink this subject, and I'm sure dangerous situations are very often diffused by the simple act of brandishing. BG is being bad, CCW holder pulls gun, BG sh&ts his pants and runs away, end of story.
Brandishing is not a simple act, it is an act that carries quite a bit of baggage with it. You don't brandish. You bring your gun into play if and only if deadly force is appropriate. You don't have to use that deadly force, but it darned sure better be there when you you start threatening someone with a gun.
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