GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2010, 10:41   #1
-Jeremiah-
Member
 
-Jeremiah-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NOVA
Posts: 45
Used my reloads for 1st time in GSSF match. Not good!

I had a lot of feed failures. After the 1st time I had a reshoot and then it happened again so I was tap-rack-bang from that point on. I figured it was pointless to do anymore reshoots or see the armorer.

G30 shooting Berry's 200 grain flat point with a shoulder, 4.4gr WST powder, 1.195 OAL using mixed brass. In working to that load I started with two bunches loaded at 4.5 grains and 4.4 grains with an OAL of 1.225. Those loads has a lot of feed failures so I loaded some more 4.4gr with an OAL of 1.195. That load shot really well with zero failures and very good accuracy which is why I used it at the match.

At the match I was loading my magazines to full capacity (10 rounds) with one in the chamber. An RO suggested that my mag springs were stiff and this was causing my slide to not fully cycle for the 1st few rounds in the magazine. I have eight magazines and not all of them were causing jams, some are new and some are old. I eventually stopped loading 10+1 and instead went with 9+1. That helped but I still had a few feed failures. It should be noted that I didn't load to 10+1 when I was testing my loads, only 9+1 and I didn't test in all of my magazines. Lesson learned.

I also started locking my elbows in my shooting stance and making sure that my wrists were tense. When I didn't this I didn't have any failures but I was on my last couple strings of the match and only loading to 9+1.

So, where to from here? I got the suggestion on this board to load 4.4gr with OAL of 1.120-5. That seemed awfully short compared to my load data that said 1.225.

Would an OAL of 1.120 keep the slide from riding on the top round as much and improve feeding? Or, should I just bump up my powder charge to 4.5gr? OR , should I scrap the flat point bullets and go with a round nose?
Attached Thumbnails
Reloading - Click for larger version  
__________________
-Jeremiah

Last edited by -Jeremiah-; 05-18-2010 at 10:44..
-Jeremiah- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 14:22   #2
Hoser
Mall Ninja
 
Hoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,346
Go with a round nose and add a touch more crimp.

I load all my 45 ACP ammo to 1.245 for an OAL.

1.120 is more for 9x19 and 40.
Hoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010, 18:39   #3
just for fun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: south Ga.
Posts: 1,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hozer View Post
Go with a round nose and add a touch more crimp.

I load all my 45 ACP ammo to 1.245 for an OAL.

1.120 is more for 9x19 and 40.
and that is waaaay on the short side. what's wrong with the factory 1.272?
just for fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2010, 13:20   #4
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,653
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by just for fun View Post
and that is waaaay on the short side. what's wrong with the factory 1.272?
An OAL of 1.245" is not short. OAL is very bullet specific. To get a round to work @ SAAMI max 1.272", it has to be a RNFMJ. Most SWC or TC need to be shorter to not engage the rifling. I load most of my 45acp, regardless of bullet style, between 1.220" (TC) & 1.260" RNL).
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 15:05   #5
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,301
Did you never test your loads with full magazines?
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 16:25   #6
RustyFN
Senior Member
 
RustyFN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3,146
Quote:
An RO suggested that my mag springs were stiff and this was causing my slide to not fully cycle for the 1st few rounds in the magazine.
Your load is too light. Starting load for a 200 grain jacketed bullet is 4.6 grains of WST. I load 4.8 under a 200 grain lead SWC. I would suggest starting around 4.7 or 4.8 and I bet you will be pleasantly surprised.
__________________
The torture never stops.
RustyFN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 13:08   #7
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,653
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyFN View Post
Your load is too light. Starting load for a 200 grain jacketed bullet is 4.6 grains of WST. I load 4.8 under a 200 grain lead SWC. I would suggest starting around 4.7 or 4.8 and I bet you will be pleasantly surprised.
I agree, w/ a plated 200gr, that is barely making 725fps if that. The shorter the slide, stiffer the springs, the more force it's gonna need for reliable cycling. Move to 4.6gr-4.8gr, runs about 820fps-840fps in a 3"-3.5" bbl.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 05-24-2010 at 11:47..
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 17:36   #8
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,842
Like you said lessoned learned. Donít worry I have shot around 70 GSSF matches and I still do mistakes like that. I did the same thing at are local match where I had to go home and shortened the C.O.L. after that it worked fine.
Your load of 4.4 of WST should work at 1.120. For Maj Sub. You are using less powder; so shorting the C.O.L. increases the pressure. That load you got from Ed. He only uses in for Maj Sub, 7 rounds total. If you want too use that load for Amateur or the others ones where you load 11 rounds in the gun I would use Glock 21 mags. Or up your powder charge.
I use G19 mags in my 26 and G17 mags in my G19 just for that reason. Trust me my mags are well broken in.
Putting more crimp on a plated bullet is the wrong way too go. I would stick with the 200gr. Bullets. Everyone that I know that shoots GSSF and shoots Maj Sub use the 200gr. Bullet. I have tried the 230 and I find no reason too do so. Nothing else the 200gr bullet cost less.
Also the bullet that Ed uses. The length of his just the bullet is .568. So that may also play into what length you need to seat the bullet. He gave me one at the Thibodaux match. I took it home and dissected it. Just have not had the time too load any up yet too try. I well be using the 200gr FP X-treme bullet.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 19:18   #9
-Jeremiah-
Member
 
-Jeremiah-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NOVA
Posts: 45
Steve: I did test my loads with full mags. I loaded them up to with 10 rounds and sent rounds down range. I didn't load up with 10 +1 and I didn't test the load in all 8 of my magazines. Lesson learned. :-)

RustyFN: Thank you for your advice. These bullets are plated. Starting load for a 200gr lead or plated bullet is 4.2 according one source and 4.4 according to two others. 4.7 and 4.9 and 5.1 are the max loads for a 200 grain lead bullet according to my data. My purpose is to load light for GSSF comp.

I'm not opposed to increasing my powder charge if that's what I need to do. I would like to know why this load works for others and didn't for me. If I can fine tune it or switch bullet designs...that would be a plus.

Since I have 30 or 40 of these loads left, I'm thinking about pressing them down to 1.161 which is what Lyman's says for 200gr lead bullet. I don't really have them crimped. I just took the bell out.
__________________
-Jeremiah

Last edited by -Jeremiah-; 05-18-2010 at 19:24..
-Jeremiah- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 19:40   #10
RustyFN
Senior Member
 
RustyFN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3,146
Quote:
These bullets are plated. Starting load for a 200gr lead or plated bullet is 4.2 according one source and 4.4 according to two others. 4.7 and 4.9 and 5.1 are the max loads for a 200 grain lead bullet according to my data.
Yes, Berry's recommends using jacketed data with their plated bullets. I have been loading Berry's plated for a few years with jacketed data with great results. This is from Berry's web site.

Quote:
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities.
__________________
The torture never stops.
RustyFN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 20:25   #11
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Jeremiah- View Post
Steve: I did test my loads with full mags. I loaded them up to with 10 rounds and sent rounds down range. I didn't load up with 10 +1 and I didn't test the load in all 8 of my magazines. Lesson learned. :-)
I only ask to find out what changed and how that could result in your problems.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 20:41   #12
MisterLady27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: w/ Lady 27
Posts: 311
Different Question - Not an answer to OP

Hey Jeremiah,

1. This doesn't solve your ammo cycling issue - But, did you not shoot Maj Sub class? It sounds like you were playing against all the guys with bigger guns, smaller calibers and eleven rounds.

2. We shoot some GSSF, it's a family thing - very enjoyable. I usually shoot a 27 in the Am Civ class and my beloved 30 in Maj Sub. Of course, the margin of miss on the plates is 1. But a slow plate is much faster than a missed plate! Ask me how I know this.

3. I've used/using TG w/ 230's for matches. See the othetr thread in GTR for discussions about 185 vs 230. My notes have match fodder at 4.1 gr and 4.0gr TG. TG is faster than WST(my other pistol powder of choice/use) but scorches.

ML27
MisterLady27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 21:04   #13
-Jeremiah-
Member
 
-Jeremiah-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NOVA
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Take a look at the Lyman manual. It also says not to crease the bullet. In my experiance any inward movement of the crimp will crease a plated bullet. There is a pretty broad range of what will work and wont work. Any outward will cause a problem more then likely. Very slight inward curve probably won't hurt anything. Neither will a straight case. Too much crimp on a plated bullet will cut the plating and cause issues.
I read that part in the Lyman manual. I tried to make my cases pretty straight. I'll go a little farther and see if I can get a little bit of an inward curve. I definitely don't want to crease the plating. I've read that my accuracy will suffer if I over crimp. The bullets are in there tight. Resizing the cases made them nice and tight for the berry's bullets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterLady27 View Post
Hey Jeremiah,

1. This doesn't solve your ammo cycling issue - But, did you not shoot Maj Sub class? It sounds like you were playing against all the guys with bigger guns, smaller calibers and eleven rounds.

2. We shoot some GSSF, it's a family thing - very enjoyable. I usually shoot a 27 in the Am Civ class and my beloved 30 in Maj Sub. Of course, the margin of miss on the plates is 1. But a slow plate is much faster than a missed plate! Ask me how I know this.

3. I've used/using TG w/ 230's for matches. See the othetr thread in GTR for discussions about 185 vs 230. My notes have match fodder at 4.1 gr and 4.0gr TG. TG is faster than WST(my other pistol powder of choice/use) but scorches.

ML27
haha! I did shoot MajorSub (Sub Compact too) and I found out first-hand what leaving plates standing will do to my score! One tap-rack-bang and one missed plate and all of the sudden I'm 20 seconds into the future! I've only shot in three matches but I did manage to knock all the plates down in my previous two.

My wife shot her first match with me. She did very well for her first time.

I've read a lot of good things about TG and I've been thinking of trying 230's after my 200's run out. Just to see for myself which I like better.
__________________
-Jeremiah
-Jeremiah- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 21:19   #14
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Jeremiah- View Post
I read that part in the Lyman manual. I tried to make my cases pretty straight. I'll go a little farther and see if I can get a little bit of an inward curve. I definitely don't want to crease the plating. I've read that my accuracy will suffer if I over crimp. The bullets are in there tight. Resizing the cases made them nice and tight for the berry's bullets.
Your just going to have to experement and see. Don't be afraid to pull a bullet to check. Also, Use the dial calipers as a straight edge on the lip of the case. Hold it up to the light. You will see any outward flare easily like this. I shot a bunch of Rainer's with just a little crease. Eventually I adjusted it out but it worked ok like that.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 19:43   #15
Bob2223
Jack's buddy!
 
Bob2223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Spencer Indiana
Posts: 1,233
Berry's 200 grain flat point with a shoulder ?

do you mean a 200 gn SWC ?

Reloading
__________________
Hornady LNL The ultimate loading machine!
NRA Member
BYSC record holder
Back Yard Shooting Competition
Bob2223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 20:27   #16
tjpet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Utah-Idaho border
Posts: 5,255
Upping the powder charge won't hurt (I run my 200grn. .45ACP rounds with 5.0grns. WST) but for the most part it looks like you don't have enough crimp on your ammo. Don't buy the BS about "just removing the bell" is all you need. Turn the case mouth slightly into the round or if taper crimping make sure the case is tight up against the bullet. That will most likely eleviate your problem.
tjpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 20:35   #17
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpet View Post
Upping the powder charge won't hurt (I run my 200grn. .45ACP rounds with 5.0grns. WST) but for the most part it looks like you don't have enough crimp on your ammo. Don't buy the BS about "just removing the bell" is all you need. Turn the case mouth slightly into the round or if taper crimping make sure the case is tight up against the bullet. That will most likely eleviate your problem.
Take a look at the Lyman manual. It also says not to crease the bullet. In my experiance any inward movement of the crimp will crease a plated bullet. There is a pretty broad range of what will work and wont work. Any outward will cause a problem more then likely. Very slight inward curve probably won't hurt anything. Neither will a straight case. Too much crimp on a plated bullet will cut the plating and cause issues.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 20:50   #18
-Jeremiah-
Member
 
-Jeremiah-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NOVA
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyFN View Post
Yes, Berry's recommends using jacketed data with their plated bullets. I have been loading Berry's plated for a few years with jacketed data with great results. This is from Berry's web site.
Thanks for that info. I didn't see that on their site. I wonder if their plating is thicker than normal. All other info that I've read says to treat plated bullets as lead. The manufacturer knows best, I'm sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob2223 View Post
Berry's 200 grain flat point with a shoulder ?

do you mean a 200 gn SWC ?

Reloading
No. Perhaps "shoulder" isn't the correct term. I don't know, it looks like a shoulder to me. Reloading

The only things that changed are: During the match I used all of my magazines and I loaded up to 10 +1 so the slide had to cycle on top of a full ten round magazine. Some of my magazines are definitely stiffer than others. I didn't take these things into account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpet View Post
Upping the powder charge won't hurt (I run my 200grn. .45ACP rounds with 5.0grns. WST) but for the most part it looks like you don't have enough crimp on your ammo. Don't buy the BS about "just removing the bell" is all you need. Turn the case mouth slightly into the round or if taper crimping make sure the case is tight up against the bullet. That will most likely eleviate your problem.
I am taper crimping. I will tighten up the crimp on my remaining rounds and see what happens.
__________________
-Jeremiah
-Jeremiah- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 21:09   #19
RustyFN
Senior Member
 
RustyFN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 3,146
Quote:
I didn't see that on their site. I wonder if their plating is thicker than normal.
I'm not sure how all of the different plated bullet companies compare. I have shot a lot of Berry's and Rainier and always used jacketed data with no problems.
__________________
The torture never stops.
RustyFN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 21:10   #20
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 3,923
Possible your gun just doesn't like the TC design. Not the first time I've heard issues with it.
chris in va is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply


Tags
.45 acp, 200 grain, g30, reloading
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:56.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,055
266 Members
789 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42