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Old 02-20-2013, 11:45   #250
RussP
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
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I'll address this first...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1975 View Post
merlynusn, a Guardsman or Reservist is a civilian until they are on orders.
I believe that is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1975 View Post
The difference between a civilian and a military member is not just the aspect of being sent off to other nations to fight in war, it is about the contract and the commitment that separates the military from other civilians.
Interesting you use "separates" instead of, oh, say "differentiates". I'll come back to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1975 View Post
Military members surrender many of their rights that civilians enjoy daily such as protection under the 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendments.
And why does that happen?

What are the reasons behind the difference in 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendment Rights. Explain them one at a time, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1975 View Post
Civilian police officers do not surrender these rights.
No, they do not. Their 1st Amendment Right is, however, restricted by employment policies. The 2nd Amendment Right is still there, as is a member of the military who lives off base/post. 4th Amendment Right is also governed somewhat by employment policy, just like a military member's is living on base/post.

People will see the differences in your explanation of the necessities behind the military's position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1975 View Post
Military members cannot quit, are subject to being moved all across the world and deploy at a moments notice.
Yes, facts well known at enlistment time.

You've mentioned several times that military members cannot quit. Have you had experience with someone who did want to? What happened?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1975 View Post
They make sacrifices that no civilian ever has to make or could understand.
That is why so few enter the military. The same applies to LE, though. There are sacrifices, perhaps not as extreme, perhaps the same in a different environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1975 View Post
When the police can get deployed to war, loose their individual rights and share in all of the other sacrifices that the military does, then I will gladly change my tune, but until then, like every other non-military person, they are civilians.
Again, you are using "civilians" as a demeaning description. To you, no one not in the military has the status you have given yourself. You separate yourself from all others, especially law enforcement.

Sadly, you do not recognize that these cops do hold those serving and who have served in high esteem, very high esteem. Some of them are veterans themselves, as I am.

Yeah, military life is different. It has varying degrees of risk. Yes, the rules are different for reasons you are going to explain to us.

In the non-military world where all but a very few live, those in law enforcement are not civilians, by definition and by colloquial understanding.
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