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Old 12-16-2012, 08:32   #677
Coffee Dog
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyd2506 View Post
Shot placement is key, but how often does one get practice with a handgun and a target running at you bobbing up and down either shooting at you, or has a big knife.

This is all good at the range, but real life drama does not always have a man sitting perfectly still who wants you dead.

even the most perfect shot to the heart and the attacker may live for another 10 seconds to a minute even.
enough to pop 6 x 38's into your chest.

You can either take your time and get good shot placement or shoot fast and get a hit period.

We all can not get the perfect brain or spine shot to stop an attacker. non perfect shot require good expanding bullets than can penetrate and has high velocity.

The idea is not to get a heart shot and kill the person, it is to STOP them. the So called Lightning bolt effect of the 357 was the hydrostatic shock of breaking the sound barrier through a persons body or vital organs with a expanding bullet.

If they "calibers" are all the same and it is shot placement, then why did the Texas State Police complain the 9mm was not good enough after replacing the 6 shot 357 revolvers? how come even after they went with the 45 acp that was a slight improvement over the 9mm that they still did not have the effects on bad guys as the 357 magnum?

the load with a 125 at 1450 fps through a 4 inch bbl

it just could be that a expanding bullet traveling 1450 fps (a lot of cops had 6 inch 357's so 1500+ fps) with a 125 was enough to have the bullet go through/into the body of a BG at OVER the speed of sound.. sending a shockwave through body. and drop him quick.

a combination of a good expanding bullet and a sectional density of at least 1.40 and 1400+ fps (125 357 mag)was good enough to penetrate a BG go through the fat layers and muscle layer and still be super sonic into the organs.

the 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP can NOT the cake here



the ultra hot loaded 9mm.+P+ loads of a 115 at 1400 fps and a 124 at 1300 fps would seem like they would be close, the 10 grains less bullet weight slows down much faster through flesh, and thus by the time it reaches the organs it is subsonic, same for the 124 at 1300 no sonic crack or hydrostatic shock as with 100 fps less muz vel the bullets are just shy of super sonic as they enter the vitals.

This all of course depends on the size of the attacker.


The 40 S&W with the 155 has a sectional density of 1.40 but the hottest 40 load is 1300 fps wit the 155.

the .45 acp is worse for the hydrostatic shock, although it has massive caliber and even more massive with good expanding bullets that does the job well.

What we do know is in real life the 357 magnum worked VERY well compared to the other calibers.
The 125 357 load had a bullet Sectional density of 1.40 at 1450 fps and it worked Great.

There is not a 1.40 sectional density bullet load combo on the face of the planet that can get over 1400 fps from a 45 acp, 40 S&W or the hottest 9mm +p+. and 1300 fps is tops with a hot hot load.

(unless we are talking unpractical to carry long long barrels of 5.5 and 6 inch in autoloaders)


Yet the 357 Sig can launch a 125 bullet with a Sectional density bullet of 1.41 at 1500 fps from a 4 inch bbl with a Factory load. The 357 mag can get way more that 1450 fps from a 125, but that is what worked, why change it?

the 10mm can also launch 1.40 SD (155;s) bullets at 1400-1500 fps.with good expanding bullets..


I would not call the 357 sig worlds better than the 9 +p+, 40 SW and 45 acp just has a slight edge in stopping an attacker from getting to you. or if you hit him 1st to stop him from firing on you with his gun. The lightning bolt effect from what real police claim in teas is more than a myth.

My friend the hottest load for 40 caliber is Underwood
135gr.jph ammo. Here are the stats-


Technical Information
• Caliber: 40 S&W
• Bullet Weight: 135 Grains
• Bullet Style: Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point
• Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

• Muzzle Velocity: 1500 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 675 ft. lbs

The owner of Underwood Ammo -Kevin stated to me that
the above specs. were shot from a 4 inch barrel handgun.
Any questions you may have call Underwood at-
304-744-2109.



P.S. Its possible that this ammo traveling at 1500fps would hit the target extremely hard would also having a shock effect.
South Bend, Indianna have used Corbons 135 gr jhp @ 1325fps with
dramatic effects. Now lets pump up that muzzle velocity
by an extra 200fps and you got one haymaker of a punch.

Last edited by Coffee Dog; 12-16-2012 at 08:42..
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