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Old 02-12-2011, 20:56   #33
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,815
Originally Posted by mstennes View Post
I own both also, and the explain to me how parts are not a problem??? You have to go to vendor specific for your piston AP.
I agree you do but what part are you expecting to break? The op rod? The BCG? I have been shooting the M16/AR platform for over 2 decades now and I have not personally broken or even seen any one in my professional circle have a BCG break. I also have never seen any piston guns op rod bend or break? I am not saying it isnt possible but looking past the hype, the reality is that op rods and BCG's are not a manor weak point of any rifle. I have heard of a spring cup breaking but my piston gun does not have a spring cup design? Mil-spec or not? Bolt heads break (rarely), Extractors break, extractor springs weaken, buffer springs weaken, gas o-rings degrade, mag springs weaken, mag feed lips bend, charging handle latches wear down or bend...all of which I have personally seen and all of which I can easily replace without going to a piston vendor. I am not a hard core warfighter so maybe thats why expect my BCG and op rod will last longer than me? If I am wrong I will post a detailed video of my broken BCG and op rod the day it happens.
I have a feeling that will be a long time? I always find it odd that so many parts are needed to be replaced in the first place? I thought these guns are supposed to be durable?

Explain to me how piston parts are mil spec??? Who makes a mil spec piston??? There are none???
No AR is mil-spec hence the designation AR and not M4 or M16. You need select fire to be tru mil-spec. You can build a gun that is very close to mil-spec sure but even then you need to have the TDP's from Uncle Sam to build a tru mil spec gun. Only 3 companies have TDP's for the M16/M4 ...Colt, FNH and most recently Sabre Defense. I was at the Sabre Defense booth at Shot Show last month and got to handle their new M4 piston carbine. http://www.sabredefence.com/products.php#products/m4tactical Sabre includes every possible mil-spec component to their piston carbine that they can possibly add. So is it mil-spec? Not 100% but dang near it since they do have ISO9000 certification and the government TDPs for M16's. A company called ADDAXX also makes a piston upper that is dang near mil-spec i.e. 4150 cold hammer forged CM vanadium steel barrels, M4 feed ramps, chrome lined, 1:7 twist etc etc...

A AR was designed as DI, adding a piston is a compromise, no way around the fact you have to comprimise to make things fit with in the demensions your working. My LWRC piston brings nothing to the table other than easier cleaning.
ReallY? Your LWRC doesnt bring to the table a cooler chamber? Cooler bolts and BCG's greatly extend the service life of those parts especially since there is no heat transfer to rubber gas o-rings. No heat and fouling under the extractor is ALOT on the table if you ask me? I am no expert but I'll take a cool and clean star chamber over a hot and dirty one personally. And for the record, I am not telling you to drop your system and follow me. I never once said d.i. doesnt work. Why do d.i guys always forget to add that feature to "the table"?

Read about filthy 14, seriously, I have shot over 1000 rds without lubing on more than one occasion, if I my life was depending on no failures and had shot a 1000 rounds I'm in the wrong place and chances of survival are pretty slim. But thats not what were talkiing about, you dont have to run a DI wet, just a quick shot and your good to go if you want to not clean it.
A quick shot of what? Oil? Yeah thats what I meant by wet. You gotta keep it oiled. I oiled my piston gun generously the night before a range day. At the end of that range day my piston BCG was still nice and oily wet. It never absorbed heat and never had a chance to "cook off" any of the oil because there was no hot propellant gases and carbon fouling dumping onto it all day. How is that not a good thing?

Piston systems use more parts which is just more to break? In some systems maybe but not all. Here is my piston system. Count the parts that are solely piston related. Theres 7.
Black Rifle Forum

Now count each and every d.i. part that is solely d.i. related. Theres 8.
Black Rifle Forum

My piston gun has equal or less parts than my d.i. gun. Myth busted there I'd say?

Piston guns are heavier than d.i. guns. My piston gun weighs 6lbs 9oz. Colt AR's (for example) can weigh 5.5lbs to 8.5lbs depending on what parts they use to build it. Clearly 6lbs 9oz is not significantly heavier than a d.i. In fact my piston gun is lighter than the rifle I carried when I was active duty.

Piston guns arent as accurate as d.i. guns. My BZO with irons is 200 yards. I dare any bad guy to walk into my killzone and test out the infamous myth of piston guns being less accurate. Look, my rifle is no bullseye competitor. Thats not what I want or need it to do. I am not a bench shooter so I have no need to put a hole inside of a hole. If you need to do that then get a gun designed to do that. I'll be the first to tell you my piston gun isnt designed to do that. Get the right tool for the job as they say.

My piston gun comes with a lifetime warranty. Does your d.i? Not many guns today, piston or d.i. offer that kind of warranty. I picked mine because of the lifetime warranty, its light weight, it robust simple piston design and its price point of $1000. I am creeping up on almost 2k of ammo through my piston gun with "zero" malfunctions. I wouldnt trust my life to any gun that didnt pass my personal tests d.i or piston. This gun passes.

No its not perfect, no its not mil-spec, but it works for me. I could care less that alot of people dont like piston guns but please dont spread misinformation on piston guns just to push your agenda and bias. Please use facts to bash piston guns..not emotion. On that note, stay safe and have a nice day.

P.S. I should be happy people hate on gas piston guns so it will drive the demand and price way down. Yeah piston guns suck. Do not believe any of what I just posted lol!!!

Last edited by mixflip; 02-12-2011 at 21:27..
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