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-   -   Confederate Sympathizers (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1519793)

RWBlue 02-15-2014 18:12

Confederate Sympathizers
 
It appears that we have several people who are Confederate Sympathizers on this board. They believe Lincoln was wrong in keeping the nation together.



Isn't it unAmerican to be a Confederate Sympathizer?





For those born in the south, I mean if the Confederates were successful, you wouldn't be an American. If you were lucky, you would be a confederate. If you were unlucky, you could be Mexican or a German or....

Dennis in MA 02-15-2014 18:29

Ruh roh! Lol

Rabbi 02-15-2014 18:30

I am not a confederate sympathizer. However, "I get it." to a degree.

The first issue is, people have to realize that the issue is a lot larger than "Slavery." Even if that is the driving issue that makes anything "Confederate" a tainted issue.

People today are not advocating a return to plantations and slavery. There is so much more to it. It is an issue of liberty and community. The idea of states rights and communities generally built on *Christian" principles.

Again, I get it. I don't agree with all of it because I think even they don't understand liberty...because they are advocating their beliefs...or you can suck it...which is what they hate about what they think is suppressing them. (Some liberal, gay, whatever agenda....)

BTW, the Confederacy was successful. Just like Iceland is successful....they just couldn't win a war with a much better armed opponent. Loss in a war doesn't correlate to a successful system of government or not, it just mean you lost a war.


Let me pose a fairly rational question. What if Lincoln would not waged war? Slavery would have ended anyways. (not an excuse) it was a doomed institution. The theories as to what would have happened are never ending but one thought is the north would have collapsed under it liberal weight a lot sooner (as it has done in a lot of cases) without the south to buoy it in a lot of ways, the North and South might have reconciled on pretty peaceful/economic terms without the loss of so many people.

amorican88 02-15-2014 18:30

:popcorn: Here we go...

RWBlue 02-15-2014 18:48

Rabbi, it isn't about the form of gov. It isn't about slavery. It isn't about North Kicking their ancestors *.

It is kind of like the Indians saying they got a raw deal when selling Manhattan and bringing it up every time someone gives then ANYTHING close to the subject. Then, claiming to be Americans. It doesn't really matter if their ancestors got a raw deal or not. IF they want to be an American, fine. It they want to be from whatever tribe and not partake in American, fine.

But this half * stuff sucks. You either ARE or you are NOT an American. If you don't like how things turned out, you could decide to be a traitor to the country you were born into OR you can just leave.

GlockPride 02-15-2014 18:54

Color me a sympathizer then...RW.. I'm not sure you 'get' 'IT'.

M2 Carbine 02-15-2014 18:57

Quote:

But this half * stuff sucks. You either ARE or you are NOT an American.
So someone that wants to be called
African-American is neither a African or a American?


And Lincoln didn't give a rat's ass about slavery. He wanted to maintain Federal control over the states.
The civil war was about states rights. Slavery was just a convenient excuse to wage war on the states.

You said it yourself.
Quote:

They believe Lincoln was wrong in keeping the nation together.

.

4Rules 02-15-2014 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBlue (Post 21013819)
...this half * stuff sucks. You either ARE or you are NOT an American. If you don't like how things turned out, you could decide to be a traitor to the country you were born into OR you can just leave.


norton 02-15-2014 18:59

Oh boy we haven't had a good civil war thread in a while. :supergrin:
I'll go ahead and throw my bomb.
The resurrection of the South began after the War ended. The outcome was inevitable. The North had the resources and the manpower to crush the rebels.
Southerners had to pretend the war had any real issue other then slavery to honor their relatives who were wounded or perished due to the War. They understood that trying to justify the War and its terrible carnage required a more noble cause then "we just wanted to keep them on the plantation".
Rich mans war-that included northern industrialists and southern plantation owners.
Poor mans fight-all of those farm boys from Ohio, Minnesota, New York, Alabama, Georgia, Virginia who just joined up to get away from the drudgery of the farm.

faawrenchbndr 02-15-2014 19:02

Any way you look at it,.....slavery was wrong. The Confederacy was wrong. If those in the south don't like it, pack up and head south of the border.

RWBlue 02-15-2014 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2 Carbine (Post 21013841)
So someone that wants to be called
African-American is neither a African or a American?

If you were born in Africa and moved to America and got citizenship, it is meaningful.

If you were born in America, you are an American. You are not an African American, no matter what the media says.


OR...Since science says we all stem from one gene pool started in Africa, we are all African American.

Kentucky Shooter 02-15-2014 19:02

Observations:

1) the civil war is over--- ended in 1865
2) none of us were here when it was fought
3) if born here, we are all Americans according to the constitution; regardless of whether great, great, great, great, grandpa wore the blue or gray
4) civil war history is a relevant topic in history to study, appreciate, and learn from. Just like all the other major events that have made us what we are.
5) we need to realize the civil war history brings out different emotions from americans than any other war.
6) regardless of where our ancestors stood in the civil war, americans from both sides have since shared foxholes in other wars, probably Americans with ancestry from both sides were victims at Pearl Harbor, 9/11, etc...and Americans have since worked side by side together in industry and other fields to help make our country what it is today.

Isn't it time to quit fighting the civil war? Sure, pass along the history, but why not spare the hatred? I know, some will never give it up and will continue passing it to their children. But it is nice to dream.

RWBlue 02-15-2014 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by norton (Post 21013850)
Oh boy we haven't had a good civil war thread in a while. :supergrin:

It is not a civil war thread.

It is an I am an American when it suits me and a Confederate when it doesn't, thread.

norton 02-15-2014 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentucky Shooter (Post 21013858)
Observations:

1) the civil war is over--- ended in 1865
2) none of us were here when it was fought
3) if born here, we are all Americans according to the constitution; regardless of whether great, great, great, great, grandpa wore the blue or gray
4) civil war history is a relevant topic in history to study, appreciate, and learn from. Just like all the other major events that have made us what we are.
5) we need to realize the civil war history brings out different emotions from americans than any other war.
6) regardless of where our ancestors stood in the civil war, americans from both sides have since shared foxholes in other wars, probably Americans with ancestry from both sides were victims at Pearl Harbor, 9/11, etc...and have since worked side by side together in industry to help make our country what it is today.

Isn't it time to quit fighting the civil war? Sure, pass along the history, but why not spare the hatred? I know, some will never give it up and will continue passing it to their children. But it is nice to dream.

Good points all.
Previous threads on this and related topics here on GT show that most people from "northern" states don't really care. Its those from below the Mason Dixon line that keep the topic alive.

norton 02-15-2014 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBlue (Post 21013863)
It is not a civil war thread.

It is an I am an American when it suits me and a Confederate when it doesn't, thread.

If history on GT is an indicator, it will become one.

attrapereves 02-15-2014 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBlue (Post 21013857)
If you were born in Africa and moved to America and got citizenship, it is meaningful.

If you were born in America, you are an American. You are not an African American, no matter what the media says.


OR...Since science says we all stem from one gene pool started in Africa, we are all African American.

One of my professors in college was from the Caribbean. She was not an American citizen, yet she had to always check "African-American" on things asking for race.

I don't mind being called white, and most black people don't mind being called black. It's the color of your skin. Ain't nothing you can do about it.

paratrooper 02-15-2014 19:07

When I was stationed at Ft. Bragg I was driving through Fayetteville when I saw a big ole Ford truck with a huge confederate flag flying from the bed of the truck. That wasn't the strange part. What stood out was that the truck was being driven by three big, overalls wearing, hick looking bearded, black men.

Atlas 02-15-2014 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBlue (Post 21013819)
... If you don't like how things turned out, you could decide to be a traitor to the country you were born into OR you can just leave.

That is silly and childish.

Being an American means I don't have to feel one way or the other about a damned thing. If I want to "not like the way things turned out" I will, and I am totally free to do so and to say so.

That is the very essence of what it means to be American...

And if you don't like that things turned out that way, you can.... well, you know.

crazymoose 02-15-2014 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBlue (Post 21013819)
Rabbi, it isn't about the form of gov. It isn't about slavery. It isn't about North Kicking their ancestors *.

It is kind of like the Indians saying they got a raw deal when selling Manhattan and bringing it up every time someone gives then ANYTHING close to the subject. Then, claiming to be Americans. It doesn't really matter if their ancestors got a raw deal or not. IF they want to be an American, fine. It they want to be from whatever tribe and not partake in American, fine.

But this half * stuff sucks. You either ARE or you are NOT an American. If you don't like how things turned out, you could decide to be a traitor to the country you were born into OR you can just leave.

I'm not exactly sure what position you're arguing. Are you saying that criticism is tantamount to treason?

mattallamerican 02-15-2014 19:13

it was about states rights something we dont have anymore so who was right


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