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-   -   I've come in from the cold! (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1487275)

clarson_75 05-16-2013 15:27

I've come in from the cold!
 
I started out with a G23. Been carrying that for a couple years. Ordered a 550 to start reloading for it. Wasn't too long ago I got to molest my first 10mm glock in a store. I told myself that if the 23 left i would get a 10mm. A couple weeks ago I got offered a little more then what I needed to let the 23 go. Came home today with a G20sf. Now I am looking for info on reloading 10mm. I have heard that Federal makes the only SPP brass for 10mm. Everyone else makes LPP brass. One question I have is, is it just large pistol or is it magnum primers? I see a lot of people talk about 800-x for 10mm. Is that the best powder for 10mm? I plan on carrying this gun, but this is going to be for practice ammo only. at least for a good length of time. I'll buy my carry ammo for now. I will also gladly accept any other info you would like to share. Thank you in advance.

_The_Shadow 05-16-2013 15:42

Well IMR800X is what Underwood uses in his loads!
The SPP are used in NT - "non-toxic" primer situations. I have used them with good results. Many people don't like having mixed primered brass especially those using progressive presses and getting them mixed up!
You could drop by here http://10mm-firearms.com/index.php as I have posted the pull-downs of the 10mm factory ammo.
Great bunch of guys there too! Best regards!

MinervaDoe 05-16-2013 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarson_75 (Post 20297263)
. One question I have is, is it just large pistol or is it magnum primers?

10mm takes a standard large pistol primer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarson_75 (Post 20297263)
. I see a lot of people talk about 800-x for 10mm. Is that the best powder for 10mm?

You see a lot of people on this forum who are working up hot loads that like 800-X. It seems to be one of the powders that can get the highest velocities out of 10mm.
If you're just loading for target practice, I have gotten exceptional accuracy from loads at the lower end of the spectrum. Hot loads just make me flinch. :dunno: If I want to feel the water condense out of the air in front of my face, I take my .44 Magnum to the range on a rainy day. I typically use Unique for my 10mm loads. But, like 800-X, it's not the best metering powder.

ModGlock17 05-17-2013 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarson_75 (Post 20297263)
... One question I have is, is it just large pistol or is it magnum primers? ....

Don't touch magnum primers, large or small pistol, until you've got a lot of experience in reloading.

Magnum primers release the energy, from a given powder amount, quicker than Regular primers. So if the bullet doesn't get out of the barrel fast enough, it can become really costly... to the pocket and to the hand.

clarson_75 07-08-2013 16:59

And the adventure begins. Finally got my 550 in a couple weeks ago. I have it mounted to a heavy table. Taking a dinner break from cleaning brass and setting up the dies right now! You know the closer this gets the more excited/nervous i get. I am suddenly realizing just how much faith I had that factory ammo would just work and never have a problem.

GONIF 07-08-2013 17:02

You can't go wrong with Longshot:cool:

MinervaDoe 07-08-2013 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarson_75 (Post 20440530)
And the adventure begins. Finally got my 550 in a couple weeks ago. I have it mounted to a heavy table. Taking a dinner break from cleaning brass and setting up the dies right now! You know the closer this gets the more excited/nervous i get. I am suddenly realizing just how much faith I had that factory ammo would just work and never have a problem.

If you're just starting out, you want to load in small batches until you know your ammo is reliable. Part of reloading is testing..... :supergrin: Once you get your dies and loads set up, it will become enjoyable.

Taterhead 07-08-2013 23:55

Welcome to loading for the 10mm auto. It is a fine cartridge that is well suited for handloading. Versatility is the name of the game here. My G20 has seen 180s as slow as 800 fps all the way to 1300+.

My take is a bit different than some on this forum. I'm not the guy that is going to start talking about how to go "full-tilt" with this cartridge. It is a high-performing cartridge already. Plenty of ways to get good performance without pushing things.

In my view, 800-X is not the best powder for 10mm auto -- especially if, 1) one is looking to load in volume, and 2) if starting out as a new loader to the cartridge.

It does give some high performance, but one must load a good ways beyond published maxes to get anywhere. This is not where you'd recommend someone new to a cartridge to go. Blue Dot and Accurate no. 9 will get better top performance while sticking with proven book loads. Book loads for Longshot will be similar to 800-X in terms of velocity. I first-hand experience with all of these powders that I mention.

For volume loads, 800-X meters like crap. Basically, it doesn't meter. So hand weighing each individual charge is on order with this powder. So, not conducive to high volume.

You mentioned "practice ammo." To me this implies ammo that you'll shoot a lot.

Longshot is a good metering powder that give respectible loads when following Hodgdon book data. 10.5 grains of Accurate no. 7 under a 180 gr FMJ will give great all day long blasting fodder in the mid 1100s fps. All of the Accurate powders (5/7/9) meter supurbly. 10.0 grains of Blue Dot under a 180 is great too. 1150 fps.

I recommend Accurate no. 9 as the go-to for when you want to try to go full out. This powder gives the highest performance for 155s, 180s, and 200s when sticking to book data out of all of the powders I've tried. It meters great, and you almost can't get an overcharge in a case since it has complete case fill. It is true that some are getting higher velocities with 800-X by seriously boosting book maxes. But, I am not so sure of the value of chasing that last 50 fps. A 200 grainer @ 1200 fps from a bone stock Glock 20 is plenty for me.

Lately I have been shooting light charges of Accurate no. 5 and WSF for "gamer" loads. Again, this cartridge is versatile, and so is the Glock Model 20.

EDIT: Skip the SPP 10mm brass. It is rare. I wouldn't waste time developing loads for those at all. Standard LP primers (I prefer CCI 300s) are best. If you can't find standard LP primers, mag primers will work ok too. Reduce charges and re-work the loads. I get better performance with standard primers.

nickE10mm 07-09-2013 10:55

What Tater said!

I've been shooting and loading 10mm for a long while in various different configs. Here are my favorite powders and what I PERSONALLY typically use them for:

1) 800X - nuclear hunting loads
2) Longshot - anywhere from medium up through nuclear loads, my favorite powder for all things "HOT"
3) Blue Dot - anywhere from medium up through HOT, is CONSISTENTLY one of the most accurate powders I've used
4) AA7 - medium through hot, very accurate, smells nice
5) W231/HP38 - target loads, super accurate, great for cast
6) WSF - target to warm loads, accurate, great for cast
7) Power Pistol - great medium through hot

The only IMPORTANT powder I've left out for 10mm is AA9 (Accurate #9). I think when I've used up all of my existing Blue Dot I'll get a couple pounds of AA9 since it will also work with my .44 mag. I've not yet tried AA9 but its next on my list.

Good luck and have fun experimenting!

SDGlock23 07-09-2013 18:36

Concerning AA9, maybe I'm the oddball here but I never get anywhere near the listed velocity using any of the AA powders (in 10mm anyways), well except that I've not tried AA7 yet. AA5 for instance claims essentially 1200 with a book max load from a 5" bbl, and I only get south of 1050 fps from the 20. AA9 claims almost 1250 fps with 13.5gr but with 13.2gr I'm not even touching 1150 avg from my G20.

Granted I need to work up some more loads for it since I haven't dealt with AA9 much at all, but it seems like a lot of powder for so-so velocity. 8.0gr Unique was getting me the same velocity as 13.2gr AA9, roughly 1145 fps. Too bad Unique isn't the most consistent metering powder out there. It's also too bad striking oil in the backyard is easier than finding a jug of 3N38, because 11.5gr of it is getting me a 1350 fps out of a 180gr JHP from my stock G20, which is a little faster than what I like to push a 180gr, but the point is, it works very well.

Taterhead 07-09-2013 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDGlock23 (Post 20443929)
Concerning AA9, maybe I'm the oddball here but I never get anywhere near the listed velocity using any of the AA powders (in 10mm anyways), well except that I've not tried AA7 yet. AA5 for instance claims essentially 1200 with a book max load from a 5" bbl, and I only get south of 1050 fps from the 20. AA9 claims almost 1250 fps with 13.5gr but with 13.2gr I'm not even touching 1150 avg from my G20.

Granted I need to work up some more loads for it since I haven't dealt with AA9 much at all, but it seems like a lot of powder for so-so velocity. 8.0gr Unique was getting me the same velocity as 13.2gr AA9, roughly 1145 fps. Too bad Unique isn't the most consistent metering powder out there. It's also too bad striking oil in the backyard is easier than finding a jug of 3N38, because 11.5gr of it is getting me a 1350 fps out of a 180gr JHP from my stock G20, which is a little faster than what I like to push a 180gr, but the point is, it works very well.

I too have found Accurate's data to be a bit optimistic for A9. Hornady is a bit closer to what I see with XTPs in my G20. I typically pick a spot between the two maxes (although I don't think you could get 14.9 gr under a 180 XTP if you tried to work to Hornady's max). For a 200 gr, that would be about 13.0 grains @ 1200 fps. 14.0+ starts getting the 180 moving. Lots from a few years ago (made in Belgium) had some temp sensitivity, so that could be a factor.

The weird thing that I've noticed is that 180 and 200 XTPs go almost the same speed for a given charge. What that tells me is that Accurate no. 9 likes neck tension. The longer bearing surface (higher bullet pull) of the 200 lets the powder "spool up" a bit, or so it seems.

The other thing about Accurate no. 9 is that it has been manufactured by different companies over the years. It has changed a bit. The latest USA-made version seems to be a bit more dense. In my small sampling of re-works, I've noticed similar results as far as velocities, groups, velocity variations, etc. The newest batches have shown some signs of being less temp sensitive.

SDGlock23 07-10-2013 10:33

Very interesting, it seems like I will have to work up some more AA9 loads. I had seen Hornady data for AA9 in the past (14.9gr max with 180) but I guess since I haven't used it much I sort of put it on the back burner. Looks like I've got a new project!

MinervaDoe 07-10-2013 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDGlock23 (Post 20445657)
I had seen Hornady data for AA9 in the past (14.9gr max with 180)

I can't find that load in my manual.

This manual lets you compare data from a half dozen different sources.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/414298/loadbooks-usa-40-s-and-w-and-10mm-auto-reloading-manual
The Hornady data that you cite is actually similar to the load provided by Accurate Arms for a 180 grain JHP.
That surprised me because Hornady is usually very conservative. Again, I could not find a load for AA#9 for a 180 grain bullet in my Hornady manual.

Taterhead 07-12-2013 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinervaDoe (Post 20446270)
I can't find that load in my manual.

This manual lets you compare data from a half dozen different sources.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/414298/loadbooks-usa-40-s-and-w-and-10mm-auto-reloading-manual
The Hornady data that you cite is actually similar to the load provided by Accurate Arms for a 180 grain JHP.
That surprised me because Hornady is usually very conservative. Again, I could not find a load for AA#9 for a 180 grain bullet in my Hornady manual.

14.9 gr of A9 under a 180 is still current print and is still found in the HDY #9 manual. Curious about what version you are working from? By the way, that A9/180 HDY load is in Loadbooks too (at least in the two versions that I have).

I have found that most HDY load data has maxes that are higher than Accurate maxes. I haven't found the 10mm data at all wimpy (at least for the powders I run). 800-X with a 180 is probably a load that needs to be revised down - especially considering where Underwood loads to. That one is smoking hot!

MinervaDoe 07-13-2013 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taterhead (Post 20453032)
14.9 gr of A9 under a 180 is still current print and is still found in the HDY #9 manual. Curious about what version you are working from?

DOH!! :whistling:
You are correct. My Hornady number Four manual does not contain this load. Neither does my 10mm Loadbooks, Copyright 2000. But, my Hornady number Five manual does contain the load.

If you think that's bad, my Speer #11 manual jumps straight from .35 Remington to .41 Magnum (so, the load wasn't in that one either :supergrin:).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taterhead (Post 20453032)
I have found that most HDY load data has maxes that are higher than Accurate maxes. I haven't found the 10mm data at all wimpy (at least for the powders I run).

That's the funny thing about Hornady. I used them for a load on 147 grain 9mm with 4756 which would not even cycle any of my 9mms. That was the middle of the range they listed, so rather than just go up .2 of a grain, I used a load from another manual that increased .6 of a grain. This led to case ruptures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taterhead - re: Hornady Manual (Post 20453032)
800-X with a 180 is probably a load that needs to be revised down - especially considering where Underwood loads to. That one is smoking hot!

Up until I heard you say this, I tended to trust Hornady's data. I guess it's time to second and third source everything.


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