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-   -   Glock Loosing ground to S&W (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1485436)

Bob Hafler 05-07-2013 12:24

Glock Loosing ground to S&W
 
I've been noticing quite a few smaller PD's in my area switching from Glocks. Looks like they lost another pretty good size account in Texas.

http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/texas...)&utm_content=

CMG 05-07-2013 12:48

It's good to see S&W finally build a Glock-style pistol folks actually like (unlike their first attempt).

m2hmghb 05-07-2013 13:12

Glad to hear it. Glock needs to be knocked down a couple of notches since they seem to know what's best for their customers and ignore suggestions and requests.

G26S239 05-07-2013 13:28

The only M&P I own is the M&P40c. It is a solid little gun, I like it. It will probably remain my only M&P but I understand why people like the series.

GlockPride 05-07-2013 13:48

Sold the last of the glocks last December. Running all M&P now and couldn't be happier.

They are great pistols.

HKLovingIT 05-07-2013 13:53

I wonder if Glock and Smith, etc. actually make a ton of money from these department purchases or if its purpose is just for locking in marketing collateral.

They seem to sell them to the departments for peanuts so, just talking out my hole, I would imagine they would each like to get their product in as many departments as possible so they can say "carried by 65% of the nations officers."

I expect they know that that kind of marketing clout will directly influence civilian sales and locations where the officers have to purchase their own firearm.

Anyway, I like the M&P a lot. I have the 45c and 9c. Great pistols.

I'm also glad Smith & Wesson is giving them some solid competition. It's good for everyone when the manufacturers are more motivated.

03scgt 05-07-2013 14:17

When they decide to make a stock trigger that doesn't feel like its going to snap in half or have a pull similar to the feel of a bag of broken potato chips I'll buy another.they are pretty comfortable in the hand

KalashniKEV 05-07-2013 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03scgt (Post 20254442)
When they decide to make a stock trigger that doesn't feel like its going to snap in half or have a pull similar to the feel of a bag of broken potato chips I'll buy another.they are pretty comfortable in the hand

This.

Supposedly this has been fixed with the newer models. My disappointing journey into the world of M&P left a bad taste in my mouth though- crap triggers, and after you rebuild the whole FCG with aftermarket Apex parts the barrel itself is incapable of producing acceptable accuracy.

People seem to have limitless patience for these guns though, even among some serious folks, which amazes me.

I put them right next to XD. Not ready for Prime Time.

fnfalman 05-07-2013 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKLovingIT (Post 20254392)
I wonder if Glock and Smith, etc. actually make a ton of money from these department purchases or if its purpose is just for locking in marketing collateral.

They seem to sell them to the departments for peanuts so, just talking out my hole, I would imagine they would each like to get their product in as many departments as possible so they can say "carried by 65% of the nations officers."

I expect they know that that kind of marketing clout will directly influence civilian sales and locations where the officers have to purchase their own firearm.

Anyway, I like the M&P a lot. I have the 45c and 9c. Great pistols.

I'm also glad Smith & Wesson is giving them some solid competition. It's good for everyone when the manufacturers are more motivated.

They make money on accessories and parts supply too, don't forget. Not to mention that mark-up is pretty high. For example, back in the mid-1980s, Colt AR-15s were MSRPed for around $750. Colt sold the M16A2 to Uncle Sam for $135. Steyr AUG was MSRPed for $1200. Steyr reps told me that they'd be willing to sell to Uncle Sam for about $190.

So, a Glock/M&P is MSRP at about $550? They could probably sell the various LEAs for half that and till make money.

WayneJessie 05-07-2013 14:35

Have you seen Hickock's video of him shooting a M&P Pro? No doubt he is a great shooter but he was like a kid in a candy store with that thing.
It's not just S&W that is turning the heat up on Glock. Their LE market is still strong but in civilian sales there alot of great pistols on the market now.
I don't own a M&P but after watching that Pro Series run I got this tingling sensation running all the way up my leg...:embarassed:

wjv 05-07-2013 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2hmghb (Post 20254322)
Glad to hear it. Glock needs to be knocked down a couple of notches since they seem to know what's best for their customers and ignore suggestions and requests.

- Single stack

- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market? :dunno:

ColdSteelNail 05-07-2013 14:41

I couldn't be happier with my M&P45 full size. I can see why many departments have changed to S&W.

fnfalman 05-07-2013 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjv (Post 20254488)
- Single stack

- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market? :dunno:

Maybe because Herr Glock's lead firearms engineer went to work for Caracal?

vista461 05-07-2013 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fnfalman (Post 20254466)
So, a Glock/M&P is MSRP at about $550? They could probably sell the various LEAs for half that and till make money.

LE officer price on an M&P is $398 with the 3mags, and I'm sure they're making good money on that.

CigarandScotch 05-07-2013 14:55

I admit that I find them more comfortable to hold and shoot. Too bad I can't hit anything with them like I can with my G17. I'm sure I could do better with practice, but I shot the Glock pretty damn well from the first shot, despite its blocky shape and lack of ergonomics. I'm a "dance with the one that brung ya" type, so I'll pass.

ohio mossy oak 05-07-2013 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03scgt (Post 20254442)
When they decide to make a stock trigger that doesn't feel like its going to snap in half or have a pull similar to the feel of a bag of broken potato chips I'll buy another.they are pretty comfortable in the hand




This


Quote:

Originally Posted by wjv (Post 20254488)
- Single stack
Q
- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market? :dunno:


The latter would be awesome imo..
Sent from the year 1985 via my Delorean

KalashniKEV 05-07-2013 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fnfalman (Post 20254526)
Maybe because Herr Glock's lead firearms engineer went to work for Caracal?

...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

:supergrin:

fnfalman 05-07-2013 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 20254548)
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

:supergrin:

And we all know how many "product improvements" that Glock had gone through too, huh? :rofl:

cowboywannabe 05-07-2013 15:27

the first glock that s&w built was the sigma. i had the sigma 40ve(?). it was a pretty darn good gun in my opinion.

would like a sigma 9v stainless if i could find one locally for trade...

CBennett 05-07-2013 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 20254548)
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

:supergrin:

I acutally consider the Steyr superior to the glock..I think the Steyr is what the Glock inspired to be. lol...I think the biggest reason is the Steyr actually feels better in my hand and the Glock feels like holding a brick sideways in my hand :)

CBennett 05-07-2013 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by fnfalman (Post 20254563)
And we all know how many "product improvements" that Glock had gone through too, huh? :rofl:

Since they came on the scene..their Motto should be Glock always reactive never proactive....Ive been waiting for a Glock with decent grips for ages lol...

mrt949 05-07-2013 15:35

Owned 2 glock's over the years . g 17 & g21. Now I have a mp40 c.

Glock 23 Nutter 05-07-2013 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjv (Post 20254488)
- Single stack

- Pocket guns

- Pistol caliber carbines

Why would a company ignore such a huge segment of their market? :dunno:

Because it's not.

To Glock, it's a niche market already filled w/ several hungry competitors.

When you supply whole Armies/Branches/Agencies...

...everything else is just sweepings.




Nutter

WayneJessie 05-07-2013 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalashniKEV (Post 20254548)
...and turned out another polymer framed pistol that is inferior to Glock?

He did that before too- and we all know what a great success those freaky Steyr pistols were.

:supergrin:

Dude, you obviously don't own a Steyr. The build quality of my S9A1 makes a Glock blush with embarrassment. The ergonomics are as close to perfect as I have seen too. Steyr's marketing is weak but the gun is awesome. If you think they are "inferior" to Glock just because they don't sell as many guns your logic is seriously flawed. Mr. Bubits could have taken Glock to the next level and kept the competitors at bay but it was not to be. I love my Steyr and when Caracal UAE gets the manufacturing kinks worked out I will own a Caracal C as well.

nightstalker865 05-07-2013 16:04

I just wish S&W would do the same Mil/LE pricing as glock. It's great be able to pick up any glock in the line up on the blue label program. I have only seen the M&P full size and compacts on the Mil pricing list through S&W. I would be very interested in picking up a shield and pro series, but can't justify the crazy high prices when blue label glocks are reasonable and easy to find.


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