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-   -   Does frangible ammo have penetration problems? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1485317)

gringogigante 05-06-2013 18:00

Does frangible ammo have penetration problems?
 
I trolled the archives for info and found none. I found one recent Q&A with Mas Ayoob where he referred them as "coming up short on penetration... by some standards".

What say you, amigos?

A gun dealer buddy of mine says they are the crap for SD ammo and even carries frangible OO buck in his HD shotgun. Back in the day, I was told that frangible was not good for SD as it was almost strictly for steel shooting.

What's the new info?

thanks,

chris

M 7 05-06-2013 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringogigante (Post 20252149)
I trolled the archives for info and found none. I found one recent Q&A with Mas Ayoob where he referred them as "coming up short on penetration... by some standards".

What say you, amigos?

A gun dealer buddy of mine says they are the crap for SD ammo and even carries frangible OO buck in his HD shotgun. Back in the day, I was told that frangible was not good for SD as it was almost strictly for steel shooting.

What's the new info?

thanks,

chris

My guess is that "coming up short on penetration" probably relates to the 12" - 18" penetration requirement (after barriers) as set forth in the FBI test protocols. No frangible ammo that I am aware of will meet those requirements.

You could always go to his GATE forum and ask Mas what he meant, too. I bet he'd be happy to clarify.

Ljutic 05-07-2013 21:16

While many have opinions, there really isn't much available in the way of factual data. I'm not disputing anyone's opinions, especially not Mas. Here are my contributions to the debate. Ultimately, we all make our own decisions on what works best for us.

DRT 380

Liberty HP 9mm Short and Long Barrel

Liberty HP 40 Short and Long Barrel

Magsafe 9mm

Still want to test the 45 Auto loads from Liberty and DRT. I have one, but am waiting on the other.

dkf 05-07-2013 21:24

There are two basic types of frangibles. Those designed to substitute fmj bullets and those deigned/marketed for self defense and limited penetration.

The fmj replacement frangibles act like an fmj until it hits a solid object like a steel plate.

The other frangibles for defense purposes are usually light weight and have very limited penetration. Nothing I am interested in and IMO they are gimmick rounds.

SCmasterblaster 05-09-2013 14:47

I hope that my CCW ammo is not frangibile. It is a 115gr 9mm bullet at 1400 FPS. I rely on penetration.

pisc1024 05-09-2013 17:55

This may help you.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=57072

Darkangel1846 05-10-2013 12:54

Wow that magsafe 9 defender did a job on tha gel.

DocGKR 05-10-2013 13:55

I thought the Magsafe 9 mm offered inadequate penetration. In addition, it has poor intermediate barrier penetration capability.

Jim S. 05-11-2013 08:34

I think it would depend on what type of clothing a bad guy may be wearing.
A T shirt won't even matter to a frangible round.
A heavy leather jacket with a couple of layers underneath might make that frangible a very shallow penetrator.
Wouldn't want to be the test subject but I prefer a round that will penetrate more than what they say a frangible will.
They may be a good idea in a home where there are family members present but I would only load a couple of rounds and then have the heavy stuff coming out next.
On the streets there are so many variables and possibilities that I prefer something that can shoot through a garbage can or something light like that and not turn into a dust cloud.

plp 05-11-2013 09:24

I realize many of you are dismissive of the .380 ACP round in general, but dayum that was impressive compared to most clear gel ballistics tests I've seen of both FMJ and HP in that caliber.

SCmasterblaster 05-11-2013 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by plp (Post 20283197)
I realize many of you are dismissive of the .380 ACP round in general, but dayum that was impressive compared to most clear gel ballistics tests I've seen of both FMJ and HP in that caliber.

I'd carry a .380 if I had to, but my 9mm is my top choice. G17.

walt cowan 05-12-2013 12:27

The Boston swat team used that on the boat the kid was hiding in. Shot more rounds into that thing than a a-team rerun.

SCmasterblaster 05-15-2013 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by walt cowan (Post 20286041)
The Boston swat team used that on the boat the kid was hiding in. Shot more rounds into that thing than a a-team rerun.

Is that kid on trial yet?

unit1069 05-15-2013 11:46

Quote:

Does frangible ammo have penetration problems?
Yes, if one is using frangible for self-defense.

I'd use FMJ before I'd use frangible ammo for self-defense.

walt cowan 05-16-2013 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster (Post 20294179)
Is that kid on trial yet?

no show trial yet. the writers are still working on that script and several more are in:whistling: the pipe.

walt cowan 05-16-2013 05:34

one hole in and one out are better than a nasty looking sallow hole.

SCmasterblaster 05-16-2013 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by walt cowan (Post 20296013)
no show trial yet. the writers are still working on that script and several more are in:whistling: the pipe.

Thanks! :cool:

Breadman03 05-16-2013 06:28

If I lived in an apartment building, frangible ammo would probably be my first choice for a HD gun. I have kids and a few neighbors, but most of my likely lines of fire are clear.

It's all about compromising and finding the compromises that best meet your needs and concerns.

fastbolt 05-16-2013 10:26

Frangible ammunition is made for specific purposes.

Now, if someone has unrealistic expectations for it, using it in a role for which it wasn't designed, that might become a "problem" regarding how they intend to use it.

mikegun 05-19-2013 20:54

frangablo ammo sucks...


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