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eccho 03-26-2013 17:11

Gun ammo "hoarders"
 
I heard a clerk at a gun counter explaining to a very grumpy customer why he couldn't sell him more than a few boxes of ammo.


He explained to him, they had "some people", and it's always the same people, who come into the store and will literally buy every single round they have, within what seems like minutes of them getting it, and they're getting a crapload of complaints from people wondering why they never have any. They're doing the same thing with magazines, and to a lesser extent, rifles themselves.


I've heard anecdotal evidence of "hoarders" being the problem before, but not from an employee at a major gun store.


What are your thoughts on this guys?

If you have money to spend on ammo, congratulations, but I'll admit to being 'socialist' enough to think it kinda sucks when nobody but the first person in line has a chance to even go plinking at the range.

And apparently people are buying ammo from places like Walmart and immediately selling it at a heavy mark up? I just saw a video saying the "ammo shortage is an illusion" because people are doing just that.

In before "people should have prepared". Not everyone has hundreds, or thousands to spend on ammo stockpiles in case demand suddenly skyrockets. I'd love to keep this thread civil, I've seen a lot of grumpiness in the lounge lately...

Khao 03-26-2013 17:16

At what point do we become a hoarder? I have a few thousand FMJ 9mm, probably 500 9mm hollow points, 1000 or so .308.... maybe a few thousand 12 gauge.... but it's built up over the course of a few years.

HerrGlock 03-26-2013 17:17

I've got better things to get my blood pressure up from.

For instance, I've got to wash my parakeet's hair.

ChuteTheMall 03-26-2013 17:21

If I ran a gunstore, I'd keep most of the ammo under the counter for regular customers and gun buyers, and limit quantities to facilitate this.

eccho 03-26-2013 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao (Post 20126401)
At what point do we become a hoarder? I have a few thousand FMJ 9mm, probably 500 9mm hollow points, 1000 or so .308.... maybe a few thousand 12 gauge.... but it's built up over the course of a few years.

I was wondering what thoughts were on the folks who've built up a good pile over time, I mean the people that walk into stores and literally buy every round available every week.

PNine64 03-26-2013 17:23

Hoarders hoard and would rather not sell. Nothing wrong with that.

RCP 03-26-2013 17:23

Not so much about the ammo but I am bothered by the people buying actual firearms for the sole reason of flipping them. Seems to me this is the straw purchase crap that makes us all look bad. This guy on one of my local Facebook gun trading groups freely admitted to doing it on numerous occasions.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2f197348.jpg

eccho 03-26-2013 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCP (Post 20126434)
Not so much about the ammo but I am bothered by the people buying actual firearms for the sole reason of flipping them. Seems to me this is the straw purchase crap that makes us all look bad. This guy on one of my local Facebook gun trading groups freely admitted to doing it on numerous occasions.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2f197348.jpg

My understanding, is that the "private sale loophole" that's such a menace to our society only applies to those of us who are not "in the business" of selling firearms. So wouldn't this guy already be breaking the law?


I believe that's the actual terminology they use, and it is vague, but I always thought this kind of thing was over that line.

Wouldn't the IRS alone have a thing or two to say about it?

427 03-26-2013 17:27

Why are firearms and their accessories some how different than other commodities? I mean, people buy things to resell all the time with other things? Buy low, sell high - that capitalism thing...

Yes, I'm "that guy" who buys and resells for profit and it's not just firearm related stuff.

No it doesn't take large amounts of money at one time to stockpile ammo a box or two stashed away every week is all it takes.

rohanreginald 03-26-2013 17:31

I am not kidding, a budy of mine has an ffl and sets up shop at the gun shows around the state. He will find a Walmart that has ammo and sends all of his workers and friends in there to buy everything. Then sells it at the gun show for a mark up. The ammo shortage is weird, but so are all the large orders for ammo by the feds during this time.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

RCP 03-26-2013 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by eccho (Post 20126441)
My understanding, is that the "private sale loophole" that's such a menace to our society only applies to those of us who are not "in the business" of selling firearms. So wouldn't this guy already be breaking the law?


I believe that's the actual terminology they use, and it is vague, but I always thought this kind of thing was over that line.

Wouldn't the IRS alone have a thing or two to say about it?

I don't know. All I do know is that he's obviously lying on the 4473s when he states he's buying the firearm for himself. He was banned from all the local gun trading groups shortly after making those statements.

eccho 03-26-2013 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by 427 (Post 20126442)
Why are firearms and their accessories some how different than other commodities? I mean, people buy things to resell all the time with other things? Buy low, sell high - that capitalism thing...

Yes, I'm "that guy" who buys and resells for profit and it's not just firearm related stuff.

No it doesn't take large amounts of money at one time to stockpile ammo a box or two stashed away every week is all it takes.

I've literally seen stores have people who come in and 'buy all the stuff' to the point where there is absolutely nothing left for the guy standing behind him.


I'd say that's different than just reselling, because everyone else who comes to the store that week for a box or two of ammo to go plinking is outta luck.

I don't think it could be compared to say, oil commodities, stocks, precious metals and the like.

I'm not a communist, and I'm all for your right to make a profit

In a perfect world, there'd be enough bullets for everyone to buy as much as they please, but it seems like that just won't be the case for awhile. It blows my mind for awhile.

I literally had a walmart employee tell me "they can't get any". I asked what he meant, he said they've been trying for weeks with zero progress whatsoever.

427 03-26-2013 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by eccho (Post 20126472)
I've literally seen stores have people who come in and 'buy all the stuff' to the point where there is absolutely nothing left for the guy standing behind him.

What's wrong with that? Get there earlier. It sucks when someone beats me at my own game - but oh well...


Quote:

Originally Posted by eccho (Post 20126472)
I'd say that's different than just reselling, because everyone else who comes to the store that week for a box or two of ammo to go plinking is outta luck.

How is that different if a store has another commodity that sells out quickly like cabbage patch dolls, elmo, and all the other stuff that suddenly has demand overnight? For example, I flipped playstations when they first came out and everybody had to have one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eccho (Post 20126472)
I don't think it could be compared to say, oil commodities, stocks, precious metals and the like.

Don't prices fluctuate with supply and demand - perceived or real?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eccho (Post 20126472)
I'm not a communist, and I'm all for your right to make a profit

No one said you were.

In a perfect world, there'd be enough bullets for everyone to buy as much as they please, but it seems like that just won't be the case for awhile. It blows my mind for awhile.[/QUOTE] OK

Quote:

Originally Posted by eccho (Post 20126472)
I literally had a walmart employee tell me "they can't get any". I asked what he meant, he said they've been trying for weeks with zero progress whatsoever.

Try another walmart? Buy online?

OP, please understand, I'm not picking on you.

It seems that some gun owners are socialists when they want to buy and capitalists when they want to sell.

Any anybody who raises their prices is gouging - taking advantage. I have yet to figure out at what point stockpiling becomes hoarding. I'm still uncertain how a "fair" price is determined. Did I miss any of the catch phrases of the current crisis?

I think it's interesting how some people view firearms some how different than other things that are bought and sold.

countrygun 03-26-2013 17:55

Life's rough

Become a dealer

Stock up between panics

or put up with the market.

those are the choices.

JLA 03-26-2013 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrGlock (Post 20126403)
I've got better things to get my blood pressure up from.

For instance, I've got to wash my parakeet's hair.




I know this is a serious thread but THAT is funny! :rofl:

BamaTrooper 03-26-2013 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCP (Post 20126434)
Not so much about the ammo but I am bothered by the people buying actual firearms for the sole reason of flipping them. Seems to me this is the straw purchase crap that makes us all look bad. This guy on one of my local Facebook gun trading groups freely admitted to doing it on numerous occasions.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2f197348.jpg

This loose definintion of straw purchase is going to be as divisive amongst gun owners as the hunters vs black rifle owners debate.

He bought it to immediately sell it for profit. Unless there is a threshold to cross from private seller to gun dealer, he is still selling things legally. If he was approached by someone that could not own the gun and bought it for the sole purpose of giving it to a prohibited person, THAT is a straw purchase.
Otherwise, buying that set of singleshots to modify into camping guns given away as gifts makes a lot of people "straw purchasers".

Bruce M 03-26-2013 18:19

I am also unsure what the difference is between stockpiling and hoarding. Someone who is planning a couple courses during the year or some competitions might easily need ten thousand rounds to get them from a couple months back until whenever supply gets to the point where one can count on discounts again. Someone else who has no plans to do anything but try their new gun once at the range could arguably be hoarding with half a dozen boxes of ammunition.

I also wonder to what extent is there really a shortage, or is there a shortage of the specific brand of ammunition we want at the typical discounted price we prefer to pay.

BamaTrooper 03-26-2013 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCP (Post 20126465)
I don't know. All I do know is that he's obviously lying on the 4473s when he states he's buying the firearm for himself. He was banned from all the local gun trading groups shortly after making those statements.

He did buy them for himself...then he sold them. If someone can prove that an arrangement was made to buy a gun for someone prohibited from owning one, then we have a problem and his statements were lies.

Let's use two examples:
1- Your brother-in-law, legally able to buy a gun, but unable to locate one because he is out of the country, tells you, "If you find a _____, pick it up and I will buy it from you." You find _____, buy it and sell it tohim when he gets back in country. Do you think this is a straw purchase?
2- Your brother-in-law, convicted of domestic violence and prohibited by law from possessing a gun, approaches you and says, "I want to start hunting but the local shop turned me down when I tried to buy a gun. If you buy me that _____, I'll give you back your money." You agree, buy the gun and give it to him.

Which is a straw purchase?

Dragline 03-26-2013 18:40

Unless you have years old flattened cats under boxes of ammo you are not a real hoarder.

larry_minn 03-26-2013 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaTrooper (Post 20126597)
This loose definintion of straw purchase is going to be as divisive amongst gun owners as the hunters vs black rifle owners debate.

He bought it to immediately sell it for profit. Unless there is a threshold to cross from private seller to gun dealer, he is still selling things legally. If he was approached by someone that could not own the gun and bought it for the sole purpose of giving it to a prohibited person, THAT is a straw purchase.
Otherwise, buying that set of singleshots to modify into camping guns given away as gifts makes a lot of people "straw purchasers".

LOOSE definition???? IF you want to buy guns to resell you MUST have a FFL, bound book.....
The post you commented on. Poster said "I did buy for SOLE purpose of resale" This person is subject to arrest/conviction/never being able to legally TOUCH a gun or ammo.
Now IF I went to Wally World (or other place) Bought a gun, then decided later I didn't care for it. IF I THEN decide to sell it (my understanding is that legal) BUT IF I buy it with intent to resell/I do NOT have a FFL.. Thats a criminal act.

Jack_Pine 03-26-2013 18:51

I really don't know what to say. I get all the free market, buy/sell, get there earlier and yada yada yada.

This whole thing is f'in annoying. I long for the days when I could go in and buy what I needed for the upcoming weekend.

The story about the dealer sending all his employees in to buy everything so he can up-sell it at a market ticks me off. Understand it's not illegal, just annoys me. Sorry for the rant.

dbarry 03-26-2013 18:57

yup, it's a bunch-o BS for sure. Thank you lib-tards.

Khao 03-26-2013 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by 427 (Post 20126530)
What's wrong with that? Get there earlier. It sucks when someone beats me at my own game - but oh well...


How is that different if a store has another commodity that sells out quickly like cabbage patch dolls, elmo, and all the other stuff that suddenly has demand overnight? For example, I flipped playstations when they first came out and everybody had to have one.

Don't prices fluctuate with supply and demand - perceived or real?

No one said you were.

Try another walmart? Buy online?

OP, please understand, I'm not picking on you.

It seems that some gun owners are socialists when they want to buy and capitalists when they want to sell.

Any anybody who raises their prices is gouging - taking advantage. I have yet to figure out at what point stockpiling becomes hoarding. I'm still uncertain how a "fair" price is determined. Did I miss any of the catch phrases of the current crisis?

I think it's interesting how some people view firearms some how different than other things that are bought and sold.



You really don't see what's wrong with what you're doing? It's unethical, and quite honestly something a scumbag would do.

You're not a scumbag are you?

N4LP 03-26-2013 19:01

I've been looking for 9mm online for awhile now. Unless I want $1/round type stuff there's nothing out there. It's crazy. It's gotten to the point where I've set my homepage(s) to the 9mm page of several ammo sites. Eventually I'll time it right...and then I'll buy quite a bit...making me part of the problem. I don't know what else to do though.

427 03-26-2013 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry_minn (Post 20126735)
LOOSE definition???? IF you want to buy guns to resell you MUST have a FFL, bound book.....
The post you commented on. Poster said "I did buy for SOLE purpose of resale" This person is subject to arrest/conviction/never being able to legally TOUCH a gun or ammo.
Now IF I went to Wally World (or other place) Bought a gun, then decided later I didn't care for it. IF I THEN decide to sell it (my understanding is that legal) BUT IF I buy it with intent to resell/I do NOT have a FFL.. Thats a criminal act.

How much time has to elapse from purchase to resale?

Say I buy a limited production firearm years ago with the intent to sell at a higher price today - criminal act?

Say I bought two identical firearms, one to shoot and one to resell at a later date - criminal act.

Say I bought a crate of mosins to cherry pick the ones I want and sell the rest - criminal act?

Say I bought a milsurp collection, not to keep but to resell piecemeal- criminal act?


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