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-   -   Reg. Ammo, +P, or +P+ ..... is it REALLY that big of a difference? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1477472)

GLOCK19FTW 03-17-2013 17:43

Reg. Ammo, +P, or +P+ ..... is it REALLY that big of a difference?
 
I can't remember what the CWP instructor told us they stood for, so I don't know.

BUT - For my SD ammo, I have Hornady Critical Defense, 115 grain.

I'm pretty sure this is just regular ammo (it would say +P or +P+ on the box if it was something else.. right?)

Anyway - Unless you're shooting bears or elephants or something huge like that, I mean.. what difference does it make?

Is mine just as good for putting someone down if needed?

Or should I be trying to find +P or +P+ ?

PS, my EDC is a Gen 3 G19 if that helps.

Can someone explain the difference, the definitions, etc. for me?

I know, I know.. I should already know this stuff..

But I forget.. and I'd rather ask on here, instead of using Google since people can share their own experiences this way.

Thanks to all who reply in advance, sorry for being such an ammo noob :) lol

OH! Also - if I should decide to upgrade to a more powerful round, what is the MAX that my Gen 3 19 can (SAFELY) handle?

barth 03-17-2013 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW (Post 20098236)
OH! Also - if I should decide to upgrade to a more powerful round, what is the MAX that my Gen 3 19 can (SAFELY) handle?

Your Glock can handle +P/+P+ all day.
Can you shoot it proficiently is the issue - not the gun.

GLOCK19FTW 03-17-2013 17:55

I'm sure I could handle it great - if not at first, I know for a fact I could after a little bit of range practice.

But is it really necessary for SD ammo?

I guess I'm just wondering how important it is for a +P or +P+ round for self defense, instead of a regular load.

I mean, what my current reg. ammo lacks in power compared to other rounds, it surely makes up for in quantity.

So with that in mind, I guess I just don't really understand why everyone recommends a +P at the very least for SD..

Could anyone shed some light on this subject?

@barth - thanks man, I feel a lot better knowing it can handle +P & +P+ without problems.

I had a feeling it probably could, I mean hey.. it IS a Glock. lol just wanted to make sure.

beforeobamabans 03-17-2013 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW (Post 20098276)

But is it really necessary for SD ammo?

Of course not. In fact, there is a downside in that higher loadings produce more recoil which reduces accuracy and delays follow up shots. So.....

GLOCK19FTW 03-17-2013 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by beforeobamabans (Post 20098306)
Of course not. In fact, there is a downside in that higher loadings produce more recoil which reduces accuracy and delays follow up shots. So.....

Ah.. very good point.

Having never shot a +P or +P+ (that I know of, anyway) I think it's best to stick to my current setup.

I'm extremely accurate as it is, and you know what they say.. if it ain't broke, don't fix it! :)

Thanks!

Trigger Finger 03-17-2013 18:34

I think there is a difference between the different loads of 9MM you asked about. Not a big difference but a difference.

The +P stand for "plus pressure". Meaning they load those up to a higher pressure with different powder and/or more powder to gain more velocity.

I have always liked +P loads in 38 Spl, 9MM and 45 ACP. Just for a little extra power. I have also found that the +P loads in a semi-auto pistol tends to feed a little more reliably, especially if you shoot maybe 200 rounds of ammo or more before cleanings.

You can really feel the difference between a regular pressure round and one loaded to +P+ by a reputable loader, like Winchester or Federal and the like.

The recoil is not much different but the main point is to hit what you are aiming for!!!

Merkavaboy 03-17-2013 19:03

Glock 9mm pistols are rated to shoot all factory loads (excluding non-jacketed lead bullets) including NATO and +P+ pressure loads.

+P means higher pressure and velocity above standard loads and is SAAMI approved.

+P+ means even higher pressure/velocity above +P and is not SAAMI approved, though the major mfg'ers of this ammo (Fed, Win, Rem, Speer) have their own factory standards that is safe for use in many modern designed pistols.

NATO designated loads fall under the regulations of NATO STANAG 4090 and undergo strict testing to be NATO qualified for use in NATO approved military firearms (the G19 and G17 are NATO approved firearms).

Depending upon the bullet design, +P and especially +P+ loads in 9mm, have an advantage above their standard pressure brethren. The best example of this is the 115JHP+P+ loads by Fed, Win, Speer and Rem. these loads, especially the Fed and Win loads, have nearly three decades of street proven stopping ability that have been proven by Illinois State PD, Border Patrol, DeKlab Co GA and other agencies. And the recoil of these loads are still way less than even a standard pressure 40 S&W 180gr load.

Selection of SD ammo is a very personal decision, and whatever caliber I may chose to carry I will only use loads that have a proven street record of stopping BGs with minimal chance of over penetration. For me this rules out ALL solid/FMJ loads and heavy/slow moving bullets in all service calibers and loads that have only been tested in ballistic gel and approved by the FBI/IWBA dweebs (and this goes for the new Hornady FTX loads).

FLIPPER 348 03-17-2013 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW (Post 20098276)
I
But is it really necessary for SD ammo?

I'm not sure if it's necessary but I load up .38sp +p in my ti .357 snub when it is pulling home defense duty due to the quicker follow up shots.

waawaaweenie 03-17-2013 19:42

Quote:

Anyway - Unless you're shooting bears or elephants or something huge like that, I mean.. what difference does it make?
if you are shooting bears or elephants with a 9mm it really isn't going to matter how many +'s are before or after the "P"

most of the "P" is going to be in your shorts

collim1 03-17-2013 20:23

Your G19 can handle more +P+ than you can likely afford to shoot.

I carry 147g 9mm standard pressure. I carry 230g .45acp standard pressure. The only +P's I carry are in .38spl, it needs a little help IMO, especially out of the little snub nose barrel.

9mm +p+ 03-18-2013 00:59

9mm is VERY load specific as to what works well on folks and what doesn't, all of the truly effective loads are +P/+P+. If you want to trust your life to ammo that's not the best rock on.

NEOH212 03-18-2013 02:56

If I were to carry a 9mm in any barrel length, +P or +P+ is a no brainer.

In other calibers, +P may not offer a huge difference in performance or it can be a massive difference.

A lot of it depends on the bullet design and the actual velocity of the bullet. I'm not a big +P fan but there a few exceptions.

For instance, my carry load is the Federal HST 230 grain +P. I don't perceive any more recoil over the standard pressure loads but I do see more penetration and expansion from it.

If a +P load can offer a significantly measurable increase in performance without a significant increase in recoil, and without a significant loss in controllability, it's good to go by me.

If not, I'll opt for the standard pressure load. If the standard pressure load isn't up to the job that I require of the ammo or gun, then I move to the next larger caliber.

NEOH212 03-18-2013 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+ (Post 20099343)
9mm is VERY load specific as to what works well on folks and what doesn't, all of the truly effective loads are +P/+P+. If you want to trust your life to ammo that's not the best rock on.

This is very sound advice.


This is why the first number in the caliber I carry will always start with a 4 at least. (And hopefully end with a 5.) :cool:

1canvas 03-18-2013 12:48

many believe the standard preasure may be a marginal SD load. when people talk about defense calibers you always hear ''don't use anything less than a 9mm''. to me that puts 9mm as the least caliber to consider for SD. that being the case a +P or +P+ would always be my choise in 9mm. the 9mm loads that have the best track record are usually +P or +P+.

GLOCK19FTW 03-18-2013 12:53

Awesome, thanks everyone!

I'll have to take a trip to the gun shop sometime & see if they will let me test out some +P and/or +P+ ammo.

Will be awhile tho, since our LGS just shut down & moved 30 miles away..

This blows. Now, not only do we NOT have a gun shop in this town, we can't even get ammo restocked at Walmart..

ugh

But I guess the LGS closing doesn't matter in this scenario anyway, since they didn't have a range. The only one that does is still 30+ miles from here so not much of a difference by that factor. lol!

Until then, I'll just have to stick with my Critical Defense rounds.

NEOH212 03-18-2013 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOCK19FTW (Post 20100506)
Awesome, thanks everyone!

I'll have to take a trip to the gun shop sometime & see if they will let me test out some +P and/or +P+ ammo.

Will be awhile tho, since our LGS just shut down & moved 30 miles away..

This blows. Now, not only do we NOT have a gun shop in this town, we can't even get ammo restocked at Walmart..

ugh

But I guess the LGS closing doesn't matter in this scenario anyway, since they didn't have a range. The only one that does is still 30+ miles from here so not much of a difference by that factor. lol!

Until then, I'll just have to stick with my Critical Defense rounds.

The ammo shortage is a real pain in the rump right now for sure. I really don't shoot 9mm anymore much and if I had any Ranger T-Series left I'd send you a few boxes.

I wish you luck in finding ammo.

SCmasterblaster 03-18-2013 16:43

I keep my G17 loaded with WW 115gr JHP +P+ loads. I want my assailants to have nothing but the best.

GIG4FUN 03-18-2013 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster (Post 20101190)
I keep my G17 loaded with WW 115gr JHP +P+ loads. I want my assailants to have nothing but the best.

+1


You can not conjure up what you may need :dunno:


When it happens JUST have all you can. :wavey:

GLOCK19FTW 03-18-2013 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEOH212 (Post 20100818)
The ammo shortage is a real pain in the rump right now for sure. I really don't shoot 9mm anymore much and if I had any Ranger T-Series left I'd send you a few boxes.

I wish you luck in finding ammo.

That's still very thoughtful tho - I appreciate the gesture! :)

Thanks for the PM too - I can't really afford to spend any money on ammo or accessories right now (rent & bills & all the other horrible parts about being an adult drained us until Friday.. then we get to pay more bills! lol)

Whenever I do have some extra play money I'll be checking those out tho, well.. assuming I can find any.

Stupid ammo shortage. :steamed:

@SCMB, I feel the same way - hence the reason I carry a Glock! :)

Now I just need to get the best possible ammo when I can afford (and find) it!

SCmasterblaster 03-18-2013 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIG4FUN (Post 20101220)
+1


You can not conjure up what you may need :dunno:


When it happens JUST have all you can. :wavey:

And if 33 rounds of 9mm +P+ 115gr JHPs are not enough, I have a 12ga Mossberg M500 standing by with OOO buckshot rounds.


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