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-   -   Thinking about the use of drones in America (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1470463)

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 07:10

Thinking about the use of drones in America
 
Prior to the 2010 census, the Federal government hired thousands of temporary workers to canvas the nation and obtain GPS readings for every home address in America. When objections were raised over this perceived intrusion, the citizenry was assured that the only purpose of the GPS readings, was, according to census.gov, to "reduce the amount of time spent by census workers in locating addresses."

It was further explained, "The exact geographic location of each housing unit is critical to ensure that when we publish the census results for the entire country, broken down by various geographic areas ranging from states, counties, and cities, to census blocks, we accurately represent the data for the area in question. If we correctly collect the information for a household, but incorrectly allocate that information to the wrong geographic area - not the one in which it is actually located - this will result in inaccurate data for two geographic areas."

Now, I ask you, wouldn't zip codes on the submitted census forms accomplish the same?

Now, in 2013, federal, state and even local governments are employing drones as a "tool for law enforcement". So, are you still confident that those GPS coordinates are only used to insure an accurate census count?

JBnTX 02-08-2013 08:05

Nevermind....:faint:

wprebeck 02-08-2013 08:13

First off - How are GPS coordinates an intrusion? They are no more than a way of mapping an area, albeit a lot more precise than previous methods.

Secondly - You had better remove the numbers that denote your street address from both your mailbox and your home. I hear that government agents make use of those, for some very nefarious purposes. Some .gov agents even make daily visits to your home, delivering some type of letter or package...who knows what could be in there? Better call Alex Jones right now.

Plus, the enforcement arm of the .gov is known to make use of your street address. SOmetimes, those evildoers are actually sent by other .gov agents via radio signals to homes for no other purpose than to harass and terrify local entrepreneurs who are simply trying to earn a living. The evil .gov agents will actually STOP these attempts at running a small business, and even go so far as to employ deadly force upon the poor and downtrodden citizens who only wish to make a little money for themselves.

To make matters worse, those same numbers on your house and mailbox will sometimes draw the attention of .gov agents who will crash through your door with an axe. They will forcibly remove you and your family from your home, often in the middle of the night. If that's not bad enough, these same agents of the .gov will employ large water hoses upon your home, in order to gain your compliance. After soaking your home and all your possessions into ruin, these same evil people will disappear back into the night, while other citizens (whom you thought were nice neighbors) will clap and cheer for them.

And, you know, after thinking about it - the government will even send use those mailbox numbers to send its agents to your home, and force you to take drugs and other medicines you didn't even know existed or needed. Often, these agents are sent by the same radio signals as the first and second groups - but, I hear if you wear tinfoil, those signals can be blocked.

Perhaps you could cover your home in tinfoil, that way the signals can't penetrate your home. Please post a photo or two, so I can have a template for my home, as I see you have a valid point in worrying about drones dropping bombs on your home.

JBnTX 02-08-2013 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprebeck (Post 19963497)
First off - How are GPS coordinates an intrusion? They are no more than a way of mapping an area, albeit a lot more precise than previous methods.

Secondly - You had better remove the numbers that denote your street address from both your mailbox and your home. I hear that government agents make use of those, for some very nefarious purposes. Some .gov agents even make daily visits to your home, delivering some type of letter or package...who knows what could be in there? Better call Alex Jones right now.

Plus, the enforcement arm of the .gov is known to make use of your street address. SOmetimes, those evildoers are actually sent by other .gov agents via radio signals to homes for no other purpose than to harass and terrify local entrepreneurs who are simply trying to earn a living. The evil .gov agents will actually STOP these attempts at running a small business, and even go so far as to employ deadly force upon the poor and downtrodden citizens who only wish to make a little money for themselves.

To make matters worse, those same numbers on your house and mailbox will sometimes draw the attention of .gov agents who will crash through your door with an axe. They will forcibly remove you and your family from your home, often in the middle of the night. If that's not bad enough, these same agents of the .gov will employ large water hoses upon your home, in order to gain your compliance. After soaking your home and all your possessions into ruin, these same evil people will disappear back into the night, while other citizens (whom you thought were nice neighbors) will clap and cheer for them.

And, you know, after thinking about it - the government will even send use those mailbox numbers to send its agents to your home, and force you to take drugs and other medicines you didn't even know existed or needed. Often, these agents are sent by the same radio signals as the first and second groups - but, I hear if you wear tinfoil, those signals can be blocked.

Perhaps you could cover your home in tinfoil, that way the signals can't penetrate your home. Please post a photo or two, so I can have a template for my home, as I see you have a valid point in worrying about drones dropping bombs on your home.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

RussP 02-08-2013 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprebeck (Post 19963497)
First off - ...as I see you have a valid point in worrying about drones dropping bombs on your home.

Priceless!!!! :animlol:

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprebeck (Post 19963497)
First off - How are GPS coordinates an intrusion? They are no more than a way of mapping an area, albeit a lot more precise than previous methods.

I see that you are a government apologist. The "intrusion" would be the gathering of GPS coordinates of individual addresses under a false pretext. See, you say "mapping", while the pretext was for insuring an accurate census count.

Quote:

Secondly - You had better remove the numbers that denote your street address from both your mailbox and your home.
Drones don't rely on the numbers on one's mailbox or home. They rely on GPS coordinates. Hey, this is a bonus for you. You may actually learn something.

Quote:

Plus, the enforcement arm of the .gov is known to make use of your street address. SOmetimes, those evildoers are actually sent by other .gov agents via radio signals to homes for no other purpose than to harass and terrify local entrepreneurs who are simply trying to earn a living. The evil .gov agents will actually STOP these attempts at running a small business, and even go so far as to employ deadly force upon the poor and downtrodden citizens who only wish to make a little money for themselves.
And Govt. agents don't even do that very well, do they? There are many instances of those agents going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent "poor and downtrodden citizens", aren't there?

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 19963619)
Priceless!!!! :animlol:

Vapid.

JBnTX 02-08-2013 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorsharp (Post 19963905)

...There are many instances of those agents going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent "poor and downtrodden citizens", aren't there?

"many instances"???...:dunno:

Law enforcement going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent citizens is extremely rare. It is the exception, not the norm at you make it out to be.

The truth is that the average American citizen, that has broken no laws. has a greater chance of being struck by lightening, winning the lottery and killed in a car wreck all on the same day, than they do of ever being killed in a drone attack.

For the criminal element of our society I say, "Cry Havoc and let slip the drones of war".

CAcop 02-08-2013 10:23

How is standing in a lawful place and collecting lat/long and intrusion?

Also how do you feel about Google with their street view cameras?

Did you know that Google in addition to photgraphing your home has also mapped any WiFi you have?

RussP 02-08-2013 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorsharp (Post 19963905)
I see that you are a government apologist. The "intrusion" would be the gathering of GPS coordinates of individual addresses under a false pretext. See, you say "mapping", while the pretext was for insuring an accurate census count.

Drones don't rely on the numbers on one's mailbox or home. They rely on GPS coordinates. Hey, this is a bonus for you. You may actually learn something.

And Govt. agents don't even do that very well, do they? There are many instances of those agents going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent "poor and downtrodden citizens", aren't there?

Do you ever use Google Earth using latitude/longitude?

For those not knowing what Razorsharp is talking about...CENSUS GPS-TAGGING YOUR HOME'S FRONT DOOR.

For balance, Why is the Census Bureau using Global Positioning Systems (GPS)? is the census.gov site.

Razorsharp, did they come to your house?

RussP 02-08-2013 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBnTX (Post 19963993)
"many instances"???...:dunno:

Law enforcement going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent citizens is extremely rare. It is the exception, not the norm at you make it out to be.

Ahh, however thanks to the news media and social media, it happens once, but is repeated thousands of times over long periods of time which leads people to believe it's happening over and over and over again.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JBnTX (Post 19963993)
For the criminal element of our society I say, "Cry Havoc and let slip the drones of war".

hehehehehehehe....

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBnTX (Post 19963993)
"many instances"???...:dunno:

Law enforcement going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent citizens is extremely rare. It is the exception, not the norm at you make it out to be.

The truth is that the average American citizen, that has broken no laws. has a greater chance of being struck by lightening, winning the lottery and killed in a car wreck all on the same day, than they do of ever being killed in a drone attack.

For the criminal element of our society I say, "Cry Havoc and let slip the drones of war".

I didn't make it out to be the norm, you're creating a strawman to knock down. As far as the number of instances, it has been far more than once, and one time is too many.

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 19964071)
Do you ever use Google Earth using latitude/longitude?

Not for counting inhabitants.

wprebeck 02-08-2013 11:02

Its a good thing I'm allowed to sell my home and move out, isn't it?


As far as being a government apologist - I have been employed by a local agency for 13 years. I have faith that the government has no money, and no organization, by which to do what you hypothesize. I can't even get money to fix broken shotguns and the single helicopter in the air unit barely flies.


Drones, my ass.

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBnTX (Post 19963993)
"many instances"???...:dunno:

Law enforcement going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent citizens is extremely rare.


Man Dies in Police Raid on Wrong House
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475&page=1

Police raid wrong house, kill family dog and make children sit with its bloody corpse
http://www.naturalnews.com/036698_po...#ixzz2KKbHCyBW

Police Raid Wrong House, Kill 61-Year Old Man
http://www.policemisconduct.net/poli...-year-old-man/

SLC Police apologize for no-knock raid on wrong house
http://fox13now.com/2012/10/05/slc-p...n-wrong-house/

Ogden police sorry for hitting wrong house, but veterans say officer safety comes first
http://www.standard.net/stories/2013...ty-comes-first

I could go on, but I believe you get the point. It ain't "extremely rare".

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprebeck (Post 19964157)
As far as being a government apologist - I have been employed by a local agency for 13 years. I have faith that the government has no money, and no organization, by which to do what you hypothesize. I can't even get money to fix broken shotguns and the single helicopter in the air unit barely flies.


Drones, my ass.

Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-you/?page=all

wprebeck 02-08-2013 11:14

Can you post links that show successful warrants served on the proper house, then do a risk assessment based on percentages of warrants correctly served vs those that went to bad addresses? Nationwide data would be appreciated and would demonstrate a knowledge of proper methodology.

wprebeck 02-08-2013 11:22

Congress can authorize whatever they wish. I have direct working knowledge and experience with two different LE agencies, to include submitting purchase orders that constantly get denied.


Believe what you want....it doesn't matter to me. I was entertaining myself and pointing out the silliness of your hypothesis.


Used to be satellites - now, its drones. Crazy will latch on to anything, I suppose.

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprebeck (Post 19964199)
Can you post links that show successful warrants served on the proper house, then do a risk assessment based on percentages of warrants correctly served vs those that went to bad addresses? Nationwide data would be appreciated and would demonstrate a knowledge of proper methodology.

Warrants served on the proper house are supposed to be all of the time.

For the innocent citizen, who has never had a warrant processed against him, he's looking at a 100% failure rate.

RussP 02-08-2013 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 19964071)
Do you ever use Google Earth using latitude/longitude?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorsharp (Post 19964117)
Not for counting inhabitants.


Thanks for answering that question.

What about this one?
Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 19964071)
Razorsharp, did they come to your house?


RussP 02-08-2013 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprebeck (Post 19964199)
can you post links that show successful warrants served on the proper house, then do a risk assessment based on percentages of warrants correctly served vs those that went to bad addresses? Nationwide data would be appreciated and would demonstrate a knowledge of proper methodology.
Quote:

Originally Posted by razorsharp (Post 19963905)
there are many instances of those agents going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent "poor and downtrodden citizens", aren't there?
Quote:

Originally Posted by jbntx (Post 19963993)
"many instances"???...:dunno:

Law enforcement going to the wrong address and using deadly force on innocent citizens is extremely rare. It is the exception, not the norm at you make it out to be.

The truth is that the average american citizen, that has broken no laws. Has a greater chance of being struck by lightening, winning the lottery and killed in a car wreck all on the same day, than they do of ever being killed in a drone attack.
Quote:

Originally Posted by razorsharp (Post 19964159)
man dies in police raid on wrong house
http://abcnews.go.com/us/story?id=95475&page=1

police raid wrong house, kill family dog and make children sit with its bloody corpse
http://www.naturalnews.com/036698_po...#ixzz2kkbhcybw

police raid wrong house, kill 61-year old man
http://www.policemisconduct.net/poli...-year-old-man/

slc police apologize for no-knock raid on wrong house
http://fox13now.com/2012/10/05/slc-p...n-wrong-house/

ogden police sorry for hitting wrong house, but veterans say officer safety comes first
http://www.standard.net/stories/2013...ty-comes-first

i could go on, but i believe you get the point. It ain't "extremely rare".
Quote:

Originally Posted by razorsharp (Post 19964103)
i didn't make it out to be the norm, you're creating a strawman to knock down. As far as the number of instances, it has been far more than once, and one time is too many.





Yes, one mistake is too many, and yes, it has happened "many" times, and for many reasons.

Rarity requires comparison. You say it is not rare, yet you refuse to quantify the number of mistakes to the total number of warrant services. Why?

You say more than one is too many. Using your number, you would say that 5 out of 10,000, just to pick a number, 0.05% is not rare. At what percentage of total warrant services does the number pass from rare to not rare?

CAcop 02-08-2013 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorsharp (Post 19964229)
Warrants served on the proper house are supposed to be all of the time.

For the innocent citizen, who has never had a warrant processed against him, he's looking at a 100% failure rate.

How many people do doctors kill each year through mistakes?

How many non alcohol related traffic deaths are there per year in the country?

If you want to hang officers for mistakes let's get the gallows ready for everybody.

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 19964071)
Razorsharp, did they come to your house?

I live in a rural area. One day, while I was outside, I noticed a van parked at the end of my driveway. It sat there for a length of time that indicated to me that whoever was in the van was doing something other than trying to figure out where he was. I started down the driveway to see if I could assist whoever was in the van, when the van took off. I noticed that the van stopped at my neighbor's house about 300 yds away. I got in my truck and caught up with the van, which was occupied by a thirty-something man and woman. I asked if I could help them. They then explained what they were doing and showed me the hand-held unit they were using to record GPS locations of addresses.

For those who have been incredulous over me referring to that as an intrusion, yes, it is an intrusion.

JBnTX 02-08-2013 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorsharp (Post 19964673)
I live in a rural area. One day, while I was outside, I noticed a van parked at the end of my driveway. It sat there for a length of time that indicated to me that whoever was in the van was doing something other than trying to figure out where he was. I started down the driveway to see if I could assist whoever was in the van, when the van took off. I noticed that the van stopped at my neighbor's house about 300 yds away. I got in my truck and caught up with the van, which was occupied by a thirty-something man and woman. I asked if I could help them. They then explained what they were doing and showed me the hand-held unit they were using to record GPS locations of addresses.

For those who have been incredulous over me referring to that as an intrusion, yes, it is an intrusion.

What did you do that caused the men in black to target your house?
Have you been hosting intergalactic keggers?

..

Razorsharp 02-08-2013 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAcop (Post 19964536)
If you want to hang officers for mistakes let's get the gallows ready for everybody.

I don't want to hang officers, that's another strawman. However LEOs are not pure as the wind driven snow, either. How about the ones that sprayed the pickup thinking it was Dorner, and instead, shot two innocent women. I'm sure their hearts were in the right place, but a screw-up of that magnitude is a hanging offense.


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