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-   -   357SIG--Just posted results of expansion and velocity tests... (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1470336)

jeffreybehr 02-07-2013 17:05

357SIG--Just posted results of expansion and velocity tests...
 
...of Speer Gold Dot125s #54234.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468509
post #13.

Tiro Fijo 02-07-2013 18:31

Why do stupid water jug testing when scientific & objective testing is at your fingertips? :wavey:


http://le.atk.com/resources/videos.aspx

jeffreybehr 02-07-2013 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo (Post 19961721)
Why do stupid water jug testing when scientific & objective testing is at your fingertips? :wavey:


http://le.atk.com/resources/videos.aspx

My my, pls tell us how you REALLY think!

-------------------------

I test lots of bullets this way, and even if it's not as scientific as testing in, say, 10% ballistic jelatin, my results are highly comparable to each other. Bullets that come apart in water I do NOT want to use for personal defence. Bullets that expand correctly, stay together, and retain virtually all their weight I'm happy to carry for PD.

--------------------------

Now go cool off and try to do as your mother told you--if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything...or maybe she didn't tell you and that's why you're such a arrogant grouch.

bac1023 02-07-2013 20:25

Thanks for the info.

Tiro Fijo 02-07-2013 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreybehr (Post 19961915)
...Bullets that come apart in water I do NOT want to use for personal defence. Bullets that expand correctly, stay together, and retain virtually all their weight I'm happy to carry for PD...


And you base that on what? Reading tea leaves? Water will means nothing unless you're trying to prevent Aquaman from molesting you. :upeyes:

jeffreybehr 02-07-2013 20:51

Tiro, how 'bout for now on you just ignore my postings...sort of leave them to us idiots here on GlockTalk who feel there may be some useful info here.

Bye!

LASTRESORT20 02-07-2013 21:14

`Good stuff Jeff! Thanks

rustytxrx 02-07-2013 21:29

Jeffb, have you done any work with 357 Sig using the all cooper light wait bullets?

jeffreybehr 02-07-2013 22:17

rusty, search for my posts, read the subject lines, and you'll find lots of post about the Barnes TAC-XP bullets.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...dall3views.jpg

packinaglock 02-08-2013 03:23

Interesting, thanks.

SCmasterblaster 02-08-2013 07:09

Great expansion!

M1fuzz 02-08-2013 08:57

Tiro, do you post anything positive or just sit around and gripe about everyone and what they do, what they carry, and what they try to share with everyone on the forum. Cripes.. now go back downstairs at mom's house and start eating your cereal sitting in your obgyn chair with a Captain Crunch hat on!

SCmasterblaster 02-08-2013 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1fuzz (Post 19963676)
Tiro, do you post anything positive or just sit around and gripe about everyone and what they do, what they carry, and what they try to share with everyone on the forum. Cripes.. now go back downstairs at mom's house and start eating your cereal sitting in your obgyn chair with a Captain Crunch hat on!

Thanks for the info - I wasn't that aware. :cool:

rustytxrx 02-08-2013 10:48

JeffB, thanks. I am in retail business. For better or worse penetration is always on my mind.

rustytxrx 02-08-2013 10:52

Well maybe in the back of my mind.

Tiro Fijo 02-08-2013 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreybehr (Post 19962399)
Tiro, how 'bout for now on you just ignore my postings...sort of leave them to us idiots here on GlockTalk who feel there may be some useful info here.

Bye!


OK, Range Gomer. Keep shooting your "scientific" milk jugs and watch your "6" for Aquaman!! :upeyes: :rofl:

jeffreybehr 02-08-2013 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo (Post 19964581)
OK, Range Gomer. Keep shooting your "scientific" milk jugs and watch your "6" for Aquaman!! :upeyes: :rofl:

'Range Gomer'? I must be really out of it--I don't know what that means.

SCmasterblaster 02-10-2013 11:51

I wonder how they knew whether or not the all-copper alloy bullets would expand so well?

rustytxrx 02-11-2013 16:26

Most bullets can be found in the various forums or youtube. Some of the testers you learn to respect their results.

Then the home boy water jug test is just an easy way to confirm that your gun does a good job with the bullet. After a while you end up with a number of bullets that you can compare the expansion and number of jugs penetrated to the testers results for the same bullets. You then have a good idea if you can use the water jug test a a guide to rounds you want to carry.

I am responsible for the rounds and carry and I own the bullet where ever it ends up. I do get a kick out of shooting water jugs. Must be the twelve year old in me

SCmasterblaster 02-12-2013 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustytxrx (Post 19976456)
Most bullets can be found in the various forums or youtube. Some of the testers you learn to respect their results.

Then the home boy water jug test is just an easy way to confirm that your gun does a good job with the bullet. After a while you end up with a number of bullets that you can compare the expansion and number of jugs penetrated to the testers results for the same bullets. You then have a good idea if you can use the water jug test a a guide to rounds you want to carry.

I am responsible for the rounds and carry and I own the bullet where ever it ends up. I do get a kick out of shooting water jugs. Must be the twelve year old in me

And most every shooter has a water jug . . .

Coffee Dog 02-12-2013 14:16

Thank-You for your tests. Shooting into water jugs is fun but does not give you an accurate picture(ballistics) of what
performance you actually get from any one ammo. When shooting into water the water pretty much acts like a solid wall-thus giving you false expansion readings and false
penetration readings. Why do you think people jump off a bridge? Because the water they are jumping into pretty much acts like a wall thus making their jump very terminal.

Shooting in gel is not totally accurate but much more accurate then shooting water jugs. The gel has a give & take response (similar to the human body) giving you both an accurate expansion reading & pentration reading. But
remember no gel test totally copies the affect of ammo shot into
a human body.:wavey:

spcwes 02-12-2013 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo (Post 19964581)
OK, Range Gomer. Keep shooting your "scientific" milk jugs and watch your "6" for Aquaman!! :upeyes: :rofl:

Why do you keep going? I agree with the Op that if you don't have anything to add of importance stop with the insults. If a man wants to shoot milkjuggs who gives a crap? I like shooting them to just to watch them explode. Hell I like watching other people shoot them so I can watch them explode...

unit1069 02-12-2013 19:41

I agree that water jugs aren't scientific, but by pure definition neither are calibrated white lab coat tests scientific. Calibrated jell is based upon pig tissue that closely resembles human tissue but isn't actually human tissue. Only testing through human subjects will yield more accurate information and we all know that isn't going to happen until the New Stalinist Party takes over America.

I like the backyard tests as well as the white coat lab guy tests because it provides a way to compare the different results with specific ammos. Once I have satisfied myself that the specific ammo performs as advertised in all tests I will shoot that ammo to ensure complete gun/ammo reliability. Since there's no ironclad guarantees with anything in life a person makes his/her choices on the best information available.

The best recommendations for ammo performance comes from the "street" results in the aftermath of documented LEO encounters with criminals, from what I have learned, combined with the individual's testing of that ammo in his/her gun/ammo combination.

spcwes 02-12-2013 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by unit1069 (Post 19981326)
I agree that water jugs aren't scientific, but by pure definition neither are calibrated white lab coat tests scientific. Calibrated jell is based upon pig tissue that closely resembles human tissue but isn't actually human tissue. Only testing through human subjects will yield more accurate information and we all know that isn't going to happen until the New Stalinist Party takes over America.

I like the backyard tests as well as the white coat lab guy tests because it provides a way to compare the different results with specific ammos. Once I have satisfied myself that the specific ammo performs as advertised in all tests I will shoot that ammo to ensure complete gun/ammo reliability. Since there's no ironclad guarantees with anything in life a person makes his/her choices on the best information available.

The best recommendations for ammo performance comes from the "street" results in the aftermath of documented LEO encounters with criminals, from what I have learned, combined with the individual's testing of that ammo in his/her gun/ammo combination.

^ This
The gel doesn't test the hydraulic effect of a bullet either. People put way to much stock in that gel test. The tests were never supposed to test the bullet damage to a human, they were designed to test bullet performance in a substance that is like tissue.

Ak.Hiker 02-12-2013 23:44

Over the years I have tested tons of hard cast and FMJ handgun bullets in wood. Heavy weight hardcast bullets cut straight through and make big exit holes. Flat point Cor Bon Penetrators will as well and are even tougher. Sierra 300 grain .45 bullets really do have a hard core as do their 300 grain .44's. They will penetrate similar to a hard cast in a handgun if you prefer a jacketed bullet in your big bore handgun. The original Freedom Arms 300 grain jacketed bullet for the 454 is even tougher than the Sierra. A 200 grain 357 Magnum hardcast running at 1200+ will give a good 44 Magnum a run for the money as far as penetration goes. Sometimes folks just like figuring things out for themselves. Read Elmer Keith's books and he enjoyed bullet testing as well. And those Keith bullets will go deep and straight as well.


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