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-   -   slam fire. who has had one. (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1469816)

ctious 02-05-2013 13:37

slam fire. who has had one.
 
Yup. Yesterday I had one. Scared the crap out of me. I know why it happened. I had shot the other day a lot. Then left my gun in my car for 2 days with highs in the singles. I pulled it out to test feeding with my new plus 5 ext mag. Pulled the slide back. Let go bang. After I cleaned my shorts I found the slug and the brass. Marks on the brass show the firing pin was stuck out as the brass road up. Once it head spaced bang.

Lesson. Clean guns after shooting before doing anything else with it.

_The_Shadow 02-05-2013 15:44

Ctious, what firearm was this? Glock? Other?
ChecK the firing pin and spring clean the channel in which it rides!
Glad no one was hurt!

dm1906 02-05-2013 15:50

Do you lube your slide (internals) and trigger assy? This can happen if you do.

Also, did you store your pistol, hammer down (trigger pull, without slide cycle)? Normally this doesn't have a negative affect, although your pistol can fly apart if dropped just right. How else could the striker have been extended? The safety button didn't engage, and the striker didn't engage the trigger, allowing the striker's inertia to strike the primer, or the striker was seized with the pin extended. Once the trigger is pulled, the cross-pin safety doesn't reset until the slide is cycled, at least far enough to reset the trigger (which is a LOT less than required to chamber a round).

In any case, it shouldn't have happened, unless something was wrong when you last fired it, before storage. A slide cycle should have reset the safety, and staged the striker to ready (pre trigger pull) upon slide release (should have remained in this position). So, at least 2 things weren't right: Cross-pin safety didn't engage; striker didn't engage trigger.

Excessive lube (lube where it shouldn't be). Broken/damaged/worn out part(s). One, or both. A perfect storm, regardless.

ctious 02-05-2013 16:59

It was from cast lube. When I shoot cast everything gets caked. I shot 250 rounds. Did not clean. Was stored dirty in a frozen car. Went from frozen car to slapping a mag in with no check. Normally I don't leave the trigger depressed but I must have this time.

When I cleaned it you would not believe all the crap in the firing pin channel. Took a half doz q tips with hoppes to get it clean. I know the firing pin was froze in place that caused it. Glock 20. It was 100% my fault. Good thing I always point in a safe direction.

dm1906 02-05-2013 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctious (Post 19952867)
It was from cast lube. When I shoot cast everything gets caked. I shot 250 rounds. Did not clean. Was stored dirty in a frozen car. Went from frozen car to slapping a mag in with no check. Normally I don't leave the trigger depressed but I must have this time.

When I cleaned it you would not believe all the crap in the firing pin channel. Took a half doz q tips with hoppes to get it clean. I know the firing pin was froze in place that caused it. Glock 20. It was 100% my fault.

Sounds reasonable, almost. Something else had to fail. The trigger assy AND cross-pin safety would also have had to "freeze" in the fired position, with no trigger reset (which would/should have occurred before you put the pistol down after last firing). More than only a frozen striker had to have happened.

Quote:

Good thing I always point in a safe direction.
Of course. Everything else is secondary!

TDC20 02-05-2013 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctious (Post 19952867)
It was 100% my fault. Good thing I always point in a safe direction.

+2 to you, sir. Owning the mistake and following the most important safety rule. A lot of people tend to be in denial when something like that happens, and as a result they never learn a darn thing.

I have never had a slam fire, but it happened to a guy next to me on the firing line of a High Power practice match. Bullet went into the ground about 10 feet in front of the firing line. He was pretty upset about it (rightly so, I suppose) but honestly, it didn't really bother me all that much. He was doing everything right (keeping muzzle pointed downrange) and no one got hurt. However, something like this could very easily go the other way. That's why I don't like being around unsafe gun handlers and muzzle sweepers.

Be sure to tell these stories to people you are introducing to the shooting sports when emphasizing safety rules and why it's important to NEVER let the muzzle point at anything you don't want to destroy.

I will get off my Safety Pup soapbox now. I'm glad that you are OK, ctious.

jeager 02-05-2013 19:59

Had sf w/ ruger .22
striker pin shouldn't
surPRIZED!!!

Jeff82 02-05-2013 20:12

Call me "less than convinced."

ctious 02-05-2013 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dm1906 (Post 19952921)
Sounds reasonable, almost. Something else had to fail. The trigger assy AND cross-pin safety would also have had to "freeze" in the fired position, with no trigger reset (which would/should have occurred before you put the pistol down after last firing). More than only a frozen striker had to have happened.

Of course. Everything else is secondary!

Everything was caked up. The firing pin safety was also caked and not moving freely.

Anyone know why when shooting cast I get such a build up or what seems to be lube all over the breach face? Is it normal?

ctious 02-05-2013 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff82 (Post 19953664)
Call me "less than convinced."

Of? I can post a pic of the hole put through the bench. Lol. Next time I go shoot I will take a pic of what my breach face looks like and internals after. It's covered in gunk. With jacketed stuff its clean. Just the cast makes a mess

_The_Shadow 02-05-2013 22:39

Blow by from the chamber, lows are probaby lower pressure and don't force the brass out all the way to the chamber walls fast enough or completely, thus the blow by.

There is some blow by with all cartridges till the seal is complete. However lube and carbon are worst with lubed cast bullets.

Hope this helps!

dm1906 02-06-2013 00:06

This is curious. I've fired thousands rounds lead in several Glock pistols and never seen this. Maybe a better lube is in order? I dunno. If lube got into the inerds, I can see this happening in really cold temps. It's possible the lube vapor condensed on the cold metal. Paraffin and bees wax will do this. If the case wasn't sealing the chamber, you'd see other signs of it. Eventually, you'd have ejection and/or chambering issues, even with an OEM barrel.

What load was this? (bullet, powder, charge, lube)

4949shooter 02-06-2013 05:42

Sounds fairly obvious to me...too much lube in the firing pin channel, combined with being left out in the car in extremely cold temps. Excess lube will do strange things to firearms in the cold. My father's Browing shotguns always misfed while hunting in cold temps, when there was excess oil on them (he didn't know any better).

In World War II, the Germans resorted to using no lube at all in their fighter plane machine guns while on the Eastern front. I read this was the only way they could get them to work consistently in the extreme cold temps.

ctious 02-06-2013 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dm1906 (Post 19954434)
This is curious. I've fired thousands rounds lead in several Glock pistols and never seen this. Maybe a better lube is in order? I dunno. If lube got into the inerds, I can see this happening in really cold temps. It's possible the lube vapor condensed on the cold metal. Paraffin and bees wax will do this. If the case wasn't sealing the chamber, you'd see other signs of it. Eventually, you'd have ejection and/or chambering issues, even with an OEM barrel.

What load was this? (bullet, powder, charge, lube)

Bullet is a 200 custom mihec mold. Flat nose. With 7.8 longshot. Tac 1 for lube. Lone wolf 6 in barrel.

My new loads are are hotter. Maybe they will seal better.

ctious 02-06-2013 08:20

Now that I think about it I don't get as much of a mess when I run bluedot or 800x. Maybe its just a longshot problem. I am not really a fan of it with my cast but I have a 4lb jug and I hardly ever shoot jacketed anymore. Figured I would use it up.

dm1906 02-06-2013 09:25

That's a modest load of Longshot, and LS is a fairly slow powder. It's only a little slower than BD, maybe just enough.

Are you using a Mag primer? I use them for most BD and slower powder loads (NOT 800X), and they are LS friendly. Maybe try them and work up a load. It may help to get the powder lit off a bit more uniformly.

Tac 1 is a good lube, but it's fairly low temp. I don't use it because on a warm summer day, even in the shade, it will flow from cartridges and make a mess in the trays and chambers (and mags, and fingers, and.....). Very good for really cold climates, and should have been ideal for your use under those conditions. Maybe cut in some hi-temp paraffin to firm it up a bit? Just enough, before it gets smoky (start at 10%). Generally, lubes that don't require heat to flow (room temp), don't need much heat to flow when it shouldn't, either. If that's what got into the works, I can see it locking up the slide inerds and trigger assy in sub-freezing temps (don't forget to give the trigger assy a good cleaning, too).

Like I said, it really looks like you set yourself up for a perfect storm.

ctious 02-06-2013 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dm1906 (Post 19955260)
That's a modest load of Longshot, and LS is a fairly slow powder. It's only a little slower than BD, maybe just enough.

Are you using a Mag primer? I use them for most BD and slower powder loads (NOT 800X), and they are LS friendly. Maybe try them and work up a load. It may help to get the powder lit off a bit more uniformly.

Tac 1 is a good lube, but it's fairly low temp. I don't use it because on a warm summer day, even in the shade, it will flow from cartridges and make a mess in the trays and chambers (and mags, and fingers, and.....). Very good for really cold climates, and should have been ideal for your use under those conditions. Maybe cut in some hi-temp paraffin to firm it up a bit? Just enough, before it gets smoky (start at 10%). Generally, lubes that don't require heat to flow (room temp), don't need much heat to flow when it shouldn't, either. If that's what got into the works, I can see it locking up the slide inerds and trigger assy in sub-freezing temps (don't forget to give the trigger assy a good cleaning, too).

Like I said, it really looks like you set yourself up for a perfect storm.


No standard 300s. I will have to try mags. Yeah the lube is the tac 1 soft. Being its hardly above 20 deg here all winter. I have reg tac 1 also.
Will have to see how that works also. The days this happened is was neg and singles. Cold. Burrr. Why do I live here. Lol.

Short Cut 02-08-2013 10:28

Good heads-up, ctious.

A long time ago on GT, like 9 years or so, a group of us combined our knowledge of failures and the the round count when they happened. We used it to create an "aircraft maintenance" type of schedule for Glocks. The idea was to have set cleaning intervals and to replace parts/springs on a round count basis before they caused a failure.

I kind of doubt that information is still around, but this is the type of failure that would be a good data point.

ctious 02-08-2013 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Short Cut (Post 19963802)
Good heads-up, ctious.

A long time ago on GT, like 9 years or so, a group of us combined our knowledge of failures and the the round count when they happened. We used it to create an "aircraft maintenance" type of schedule for Glocks. The idea was to have set cleaning intervals and to replace parts/springs on a round count basis before they caused a failure.

I kind of doubt that information is still around, but this is the type of failure that would be a good data point.

That is a good idea. I normally do a complete break down and cleaning after shooting. No matter how many rounds it was. This time I didn't. My bad.


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