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-   -   engaging the active shooter (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1460157)

W.E.G. 12-26-2012 12:34

engaging the active shooter
 
engaging the active shooter.

I got this as part of an email today from Gabe Suarez.
(I am well aware of Mr. Suarezís reputation and detractors on the internet Ė please focus on his message, and leave character-opinions out of any replies.)


As it pertains to the tactical response of the lone armed-citizen when confronted with an active shooter, I find it hard to disagree with one word of Mr. Suarezís post.



Napoleon once said that a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. We can learn a great deal from what went wrong here can't we?

Here are some points for you to consider.

1). A pistol will win against a rifle IF the pistolero kills the rifleman before the rifleman sees him. Much of this has to do with tactics, but that should be part of your skill set.

2). If the pistolero fails to drop the rifleman due to an inoperative pistol, a miss, or insufficient damage caused by too few pistol rounds, the rifleman will probably kill the pistolero.

3). The surest way to stop a man in his tracks (with some permanence) is with a shot to the head delivered at close range. Some folks dislike teaching head shots. I require them.

4). Verbalizing or challenging, as in "Halt - Drop The Gun" is not a good idea. In fact, its virtual suicide in a situation like this. You cannot yell and shoot well at the same time, and yelling may alert the bad guy to your location. There is evidence that this occurred in Tacoma.

5). You verbalize and challenge ONLY when you are not certain of what is going on and then ONLY from behind solid cover (if the adversary is armed with a rifle, few things qualify as cover). If you have enough to justify shooting, then shut your trap and work the trigger.

6). There is a great deal of discussions on Defensive Shooting. Shooting in a case of this magnitude is only defensive in concept. It is pro-active and aggressive deliberate and premeditated shooting.

7). Although I like and teach point shooting (in its context), pro-active shooting like this requires traditional marksmanship. Be deliberate! Watch your front sight and press carefully and repeatedly (with your mouth shut).

8). Train with photographic targets and do force on force training. Get used to the idea that you carry your gun to potentially shoot at a human attacker. The more you get comfortable with this the easier it will be. Tommy Lee Jones' character in the movie, The Hunted, told his students that when you can kill in your mind, the physical part is easy. He's right.

9). Consider that under some circumstances you may have to make do with a knife. I'm not saying that you will attack a rifle man with your Spyderco at 50 yards, but that in the event that he is within arm's reach (which was the case with several of the Tacoma hostages) your knife may be the only thing between you and being killed. So learn how to kill with your knife.

10). Last, consider that there may be a reason why God (or fate if you wish) put you, armed and trained, at that very spot and place in time, with the ability to save innocents. This is the life-giving sword (or gun in this context) that some ancient warriors discussed in their writings.

Little Joe 12-26-2012 14:15

Thanks for the read W.E.G.

LJ

janice6 12-26-2012 14:18

I have no issues with the post.

Good points.

glock_collector 12-26-2012 17:35

I agree 100%. The world needs more like em, what he says is true and to the point.

WT 12-27-2012 11:26

"pro-active shooting like this requires traditional marksmanship. Be deliberate! Watch your front sight and press carefully"


Shazzam! If that don't sound like bullseye target shooting .....

spcwes 12-27-2012 18:37

Common sense in a world full of idiots is a dangerous yet effective tool. Nice post.

Alias_Training 12-27-2012 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.G. (Post 19782101)
engaging the active shooter.

I got this as part of an email today from Gabe Suarez.
(I am well aware of Mr. Suarezís reputation and detractors on the internet Ė please focus on his message, and leave character-opinions out of any replies.)

Not a fair thing to ask.

I'm supposed to ignore his reputation, etc, etc, etc BUT read his informercial?

Doubletaps'Rus 12-27-2012 20:33

I find anything preferable to watching innocents being mowed down.

I think that any of our high level trainers have to have a bit of the master showman in them. They have the skills, but it does at some level become a business and advertising is part of that. I can live with that.

It sounds on the whole to be practical advice.

Comedian 12-28-2012 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alias_Training (Post 19787380)
Not a fair thing to ask.

I'm supposed to ignore his reputation, etc, etc, etc BUT read his informercial?

So your up on your high horse judging Gabe Suarez? You must be the first perfect person ever! How about you read the post and actually learn something?

TRPguy 01-02-2013 14:06

Doesn't sound bad at all

Gallium 01-02-2013 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comedian (Post 19788612)
So your up on your high horse judging Gabe Suarez? You must be the first perfect person ever! How about you read the post and actually learn something?


What are you, some kind of...:whistling:


^ Sorry. I could not resist. :)

VinnieG 01-02-2013 17:02

Good read.

bikerdog 01-02-2013 17:20

I really dont like gabe and more often than not I disagree with him. But this is a really well written article that is spot on.

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Gray_Rider 01-03-2013 02:29

Sounds like sound advice from someone who has been there and done that.

Gray_Rider

Snowman92D 01-12-2013 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray_Rider (Post 19813823)
Sounds like sound advice from someone who has been there and done that.

Assuming he really has BTDT, of course.

gunslinger g21 01-26-2013 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.G. (Post 19782101)
engaging the active shooter.

I got this as part of an email today from Gabe Suarez.
(I am well aware of Mr. Suarezís reputation and detractors on the internet Ė please focus on his message, and leave character-opinions out of any replies.)


As it pertains to the tactical response of the lone armed-citizen when confronted with an active shooter, I find it hard to disagree with one word of Mr. Suarezís post.



Napoleon once said that a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. We can learn a great deal from what went wrong here can't we?

Here are some points for you to consider.

1). A pistol will win against a rifle IF the pistolero kills the rifleman before the rifleman sees him. Much of this has to do with tactics, but that should be part of your skill set.

2). If the pistolero fails to drop the rifleman due to an inoperative pistol, a miss, or insufficient damage caused by too few pistol rounds, the rifleman will probably kill the pistolero.

3). The surest way to stop a man in his tracks (with some permanence) is with a shot to the head delivered at close range. Some folks dislike teaching head shots. I require them.

4). Verbalizing or challenging, as in "Halt - Drop The Gun" is not a good idea. In fact, its virtual suicide in a situation like this. You cannot yell and shoot well at the same time, and yelling may alert the bad guy to your location. There is evidence that this occurred in Tacoma.

5). You verbalize and challenge ONLY when you are not certain of what is going on and then ONLY from behind solid cover (if the adversary is armed with a rifle, few things qualify as cover). If you have enough to justify shooting, then shut your trap and work the trigger.

6). There is a great deal of discussions on Defensive Shooting. Shooting in a case of this magnitude is only defensive in concept. It is pro-active and aggressive deliberate and premeditated shooting.

7). Although I like and teach point shooting (in its context), pro-active shooting like this requires traditional marksmanship. Be deliberate! Watch your front sight and press carefully and repeatedly (with your mouth shut).

8). Train with photographic targets and do force on force training. Get used to the idea that you carry your gun to potentially shoot at a human attacker. The more you get comfortable with this the easier it will be. Tommy Lee Jones' character in the movie, The Hunted, told his students that when you can kill in your mind, the physical part is easy. He's right.

9). Consider that under some circumstances you may have to make do with a knife. I'm not saying that you will attack a rifle man with your Spyderco at 50 yards, but that in the event that he is within arm's reach (which was the case with several of the Tacoma hostages) your knife may be the only thing between you and being killed. So learn how to kill with your knife.

10). Last, consider that there may be a reason why God (or fate if you wish) put you, armed and trained, at that very spot and place in time, with the ability to save innocents. This is the life-giving sword (or gun in this context) that some ancient warriors discussed in their writings.




This is good. Training VS. practice. Shootong bullseyes from a fixed loccation is marksmanship. Multi human shooter and no shoot targets, running your gun and body hard is training. M-O-V-E Motionless-Operators-Venalate-Easily. Go to a good school each year, or as many as posible. The head shot should be in the brain stem, base of neck to disable CNS signals directly at the spine. If in front aim at the nose. Don't make yourself a target by yelling or screaming (the battle cry will get you shot in this situation).

sigman69 01-26-2013 03:49

good points

happyguy 01-26-2013 05:51

This information is...deleted.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

nice shot 02-03-2013 15:10

This was one of the single most important things I have read on the net. Extremely well written.


Posted using [URL=http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/]Outdoor Hub Campfire[/URL]

GIG4FUN 02-03-2013 15:24

enjoyed the read once more
, thanks for posting here

I've done my best to think along these lines for a long time


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