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Toyman 11-14-2012 06:16

Power over ethernet
 
So, I was recently given two almost full 1000 ft boxes of Cat 5e (gigabit rated 4 pair 24 gauge). Doing the ends isn't an issue, I have a crimper and have done dozens of cables.

I'm going to be running about 200 feet out to my shop for a remote backup system. From there what I want to do is run cable out towards/to my hunting shack (330-350 ft) and put a wireless access point there, which would reach a couple other hunting stands I have.

Also, I want to put an IP camera out there, but that might be a separate line/switch/etc - but that will be later.

I've done a little research on Power Over Ethernet, and its specs, but I'm wondering what kind of real world experience or tips some of you might have.

My main concern is how far I can go. Basically I want to put a wired access point that has wireless on the end.

IndyGunFreak 11-14-2012 06:25

Man, I wish I had a good answer... sounds like a pretty cool idea. Doesn't cat5 have a "data" distance of around 300ft?

railfancwb 11-14-2012 06:54

If you are going to be burying CAT5 cable, bury an AC line as well. Then you can put switches in the CAT5 to act as boosters. Can also have a frige for your beverage of choice. Will need heavy wire due to voltage drop...


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R2D2 11-14-2012 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toyman (Post 19629565)
So, I was recently given two almost full 1000 ft boxes of Cat 5e (gigabit rated 4 pair 24 gauge). Doing the ends isn't an issue, I have a crimper and have done dozens of cables.

I'm going to be running about 200 feet out to my shop for a remote backup system. From there what I want to do is run cable out towards/to my hunting shack (330-350 ft) and put a wireless access point there, which would reach a couple other hunting stands I have.

Also, I want to put an IP camera out there, but that might be a separate line/switch/etc - but that will be later.

I've done a little research on Power Over Ethernet, and its specs, but I'm wondering what kind of real world experience or tips some of you might have.

My main concern is how far I can go. Basically I want to put a wired access point that has wireless on the end.

You are going to have other issues if this is inside wire that you are burying. It will not last long installed in that environment.

As another poster mentioned you will also be limited to a total "channel" cable length of 300 Feet by the standards, beyond that is going to depend on a lot of factors.

To regenerate the signal from your shop to the shack, you are going to need a powered switch.

Last in that envoronment, I would strongly suggest that you reconsider using crimped on plugs and instead terminate the wire in mounted jacks and then use patch cords to the devices.

Toyman 11-14-2012 07:21

I've pondered running AC out there, but really don't want to dump that kind of cash right now, and I'm not sure what sized wire I would need. I know if I bury this wire I'll probably need to replace it at some point, but I'm hoping it will last until I either get a better wireless setup or they get better data speeds on the cell towers here.

zodiacbw 11-14-2012 09:16

Out to 300 ft you will be good, 330-350 is pushing it for data reliability.

Another option would be home made directional antennas for wireless, but then there's the issue of power. Solar and batteries maybe?

Stevieb_wv 11-14-2012 15:41

It won't last long at all being buried, like months, unless you put it in conduit. Like others have said, 300' is going to be your limit. You can always extend that by putting in a small PoE switch at the 250'-300' mark.
You could always put an AP at 300' with a high gain antenna.

stevemc 11-15-2012 05:53

We have used direct burial cat 5 before. It will last for many years with no problems. Cost's more though. Be careful on the crimped ends. In my experience they are the cause of many problems. If you feel like it, just put cat5 jacks on and use store bought patch cords. As far as the 300' limit, in school they said it is mostly to prevent timing problems with the data and network collisions. That being said, I have installed 350' runs that work fine. I would assume your plan will work, the only thing I would do different is use direct burial and jacks with manufactured patch cords. Keep those twists in the cable when terminating, very important. I would also use some pipe on either end when coming up out of the ground, prevents weed whacker fade issues.

railfancwb 11-15-2012 20:16

If I was running 110 volt (or 115 or 120) AC 300 or so feet I would want to use at least #12 2+g underground cable, and use conduit to bring it above ground. #12 is nominally good for 20 amps, but I would not expect to run more than about 15 amps load due to voltage drop at that distance.


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Detectorist 11-16-2012 15:41

I have seen many longer installations, even under 300', where the data speed has to be ramped down because of signal loss andor interference.

It all depends. No one can tell you for sure until it's done or an appropriate site survey is done.

jpa 11-18-2012 15:47

So you want a wireless access point to your hunting stands....so you can check your email while enjoying the great outdoors? I always thought the purpose of being outdoors is to unplug and enjoy nature. You might want to check with the HAMs and radio guys about maybe even installing a 2.4ghz antenna at the house and connecting it to your access point in the house. Something like these antennas.... http://search.cartserver.com/search/...o.x=10&go.y=12

F350 11-18-2012 18:41

Man I have worked with telephones and data since the days of IBM System 75s and baluns; why the hell would anyone want one of those damned things in a deer stand??? The only reason I even take my cell phone is for emergencies, and I keep it turned off.

IMHO all the above are solid answers. I have run CAT5e to 500 feet, it worked but was slow.

Toyman 11-19-2012 04:52

When you guys say reduced speed at longer distances, what kind of reduced speeds do you see? I've only got a 1.5mb dsl connection here, I wouldn't need super fast speeds for anything I'm doing out there.

As for the deer stand, I work from home, and sometimes I'm just waiting around for others to get back to me on stuff, so I would be able to hunt while waiting. A lot of my communication is via instant messenger and email. But the main reason would be for remote cameras.

stevemc 11-19-2012 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toyman (Post 19646904)
When you guys say reduced speed at longer distances, what kind of reduced speeds do you see? I've only got a 1.5mb dsl connection here, I wouldn't need super fast speeds for anything I'm doing out there.

As for the deer stand, I work from home, and sometimes I'm just waiting around for others to get back to me on stuff, so I would be able to hunt while waiting. A lot of my communication is via instant messenger and email. But the main reason would be for remote cameras.

Toyman,

I wouldn't worry about the speed. You probably won't notice a difference. You could do a test by running the cable on the ground out to the stand and through the window, terminate and test. There are differences in the cable also. If you buy the cheapest minimally compliant material, you may not be happy with the results.

R2D2 11-19-2012 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by railfancwb (Post 19636145)
If I was running 110 volt (or 115 or 120) AC 300 or so feet I would want to use at least #12 2+g underground cable, and use conduit to bring it above ground. #12 is nominally good for 20 amps, but I would not expect to run more than about 15 amps load due to voltage drop at that distance.


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Rule of thumb is to go up one wire size for every 100'

15A circuit normally would use #14, for 300' run use #10

R2D2 11-19-2012 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detectorist (Post 19638695)
I have seen many longer installations, even under 300', where the data speed has to be ramped down because of signal loss andor interference.

It all depends. No one can tell you for sure until it's done or an appropriate site survey is done.

This is true and depend on the noise to signal ratio but also the error rate (BER) will increase causing many resends thus eating up more bandwidth and slowing down other equipment as well on an Ethernet connection.

R2D2 11-19-2012 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toyman (Post 19629685)
I've pondered running AC out there, but really don't want to dump that kind of cash right now, and I'm not sure what sized wire I would need. I know if I bury this wire I'll probably need to replace it at some point, but I'm hoping it will last until I either get a better wireless setup or they get better data speeds on the cell towers here.

Toyman,

If you are going to run power (110V) out there and your run is over 300', here are some suggestions to make this work reliably.

Don't run copper, run an OSP (Outside Plant) fiber optic cable. Use fiber/LAN baluns to convert to copper so it can interface with your equipment.

The use of fiber will also eliminate possible electric shock from the long 110V line and there being a difference of ground potentials from the source end and the outlying buildings.

Just to let you know, I am a retired electrician with over 43 years experience, the last 1/2 of my career was specializing in design & project management of low voltage system, particularly voice and data communications networks.

Stompy 11-21-2012 11:45

Max length of CAT 5 cable for DATA and POE = 100 Meters or approx 385 Ft.

If the distance to your shack is over 300 ft, you will also need to consider an additional 5 to 10% for cable installation.

Run the power cable and add a cheap-o powered switch. The use the AC drop to power the camera as well.

Detectorist 11-21-2012 15:15

Just curious, what brand and country of origin is your Cat 5 cable?

Toyman 11-22-2012 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detectorist (Post 19655435)
Just curious, what brand and country of origin is your Cat 5 cable?

It's General Cable MPR/CMR Riser rated Cat 5e, 4 pair/24 gauge Cat. No. 2133458H

Remember guys, I was given 2 boxes of this, each nearly 1000 ft. So I don't mind testing it out and if it doesn't last, then spending the money later to do it again after I really decide where and how I want it.


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