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-   -   Can the .30-06 do more than the .270 Win? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1452807)

Yankee2718 11-12-2012 14:29

Can the .30-06 do more than the .270 Win?
 
As stated in the title. Is the .30-06 capable of performing more tasks than the .270 Win?

countrygun 11-12-2012 14:54

People have been arguing this since way before most of us were born. It wa probably the first published "caliber war" of the smokeless powder era for rifle cartridges.

To the velocity crowd they dismiss the fact that there are more bullet weights available to the '06 as being insignificant, I don't. A deer hit with a proper bullet from either doesn't know the difference obviously, but the ability of the '0 to go up to a 200 gn bullet (or heavier) can't be ignored. Taking down a tough critter under adverse conditions, gives the "06 an advantage and yet it can go down to a 120-130 gn bullet when that is the proper choice.

Fanboys of both will argue for years but I grew up watching Keith and O'Connor go over it and the experience I gained in my youth told me that the .30 cal would be my choice.

Both due best with handloads IMO But there is much more flexibility to be gained with the .30. I picked up, or rather my wife picked up a .270 over a year ago (Remington 760) and while it may just be stock design, I find the .270 with a 150 gn bullet (what I would use for elk) distinctly less friendly to my shoulder than a 165 gn 06 load.

O'Conner made a career and a living out of championing the .270 against all arguments but if he had handloaded a 30-06 round to .270 spacs with the same weight bullets, nothing he shot would have known the difference.

rednoved 11-12-2012 14:55

I guess it depends on the tasks. The 30-06 can handle a heavier grain bullet, and still deliver higher velocity and energy. I believe the 30-06 has a slightly flatter trajectory as well.

Travelin' Jack 11-12-2012 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by rednoved (Post 19623599)
I guess it depends on the tasks. The 30-06 can handle a heavier grain bullet, and still deliver higher velocity and energy. I believe the 30-06 has a slightly flatter trajectory as well.

You have the bolded part backwards. The 30-06 hits harder, the 270 shoots flatter.

I'd rather have a 270 out of the two, but I don't hunt anything bigger than deer.

LASTRESORT20 11-12-2012 15:19

I prefer the 30-06...

rednoved 11-12-2012 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelin' Jack (Post 19623654)
You have the bolded part backwards. The 30-06 hits harder, the 270 shoots flatter.

I'd rather have a 270 out of the two, but I don't hunt anything bigger than deer.

Good catch. When I replied to the post I started thinking about 308 vs 30-06.

I would still go with the 30-06 over a 270.

Zombie Steve 11-12-2012 15:31

Quote:

Can the .30-06 do more than the .270 Win?

Yep.

Same exact case. .270 obviously skinnier. When you get into heavier bullets, the bullets get long enough to start taking up volume that should be used for powder.

As far as trajectory goes, the difference is really insignificant until you start getting to 400+ yards. Even then it's only a few inches. If you know your rifle and have dope for your loads it makes no difference at all.

countrygun 11-12-2012 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Steve (Post 19623726)
Yep.

Same exact case. .270 obviously skinnier. When you get into heavier bullets, the bullets get long enough to start taking up volume that should be used for powder.

As far as trajectory goes, the difference is really insignificant until you start getting to 400+ yards. Even then it's only a few inches. If you know your rifle and have dope for your loads it makes no difference at all.

:goodpost::thumbsup:

glockman10mm 11-12-2012 15:40

Another thing about the two that is a consideration, is the 270 has a little more sectional density to it, which helps with penetration. With a properly constructed bullet, this gives a little flatter trajectory with the ability to take game like elk.

But, like others have stated, the 06 gets the nod if tough thick animals with alot of heavy bone and muscle are going to be hunted because of the heavier bullet.
They are both excellent choices, and probably in reality, the only calibers needed for most hunting in the lower 48.

PrecisionRifleman 11-12-2012 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Steve (Post 19623726)
Yep.

Same exact case. .270 obviously skinnier. When you get into heavier bullets, the bullets get long enough to start taking up volume that should be used for powder.

As far as trajectory goes, the difference is really insignificant until you start getting to 400+ yards. Even then it's only a few inches. If you know your rifle and have dope for your loads it makes no difference at all.

Agreed,

People put far to much emphasis on a "flat cartridge" when what they should be concerned with (for long range) is wind bucking ability. It's a LOT easier to dope for trajectory than calling and doping for the wind. When considering each cartridge for hunting this really shouldn't be a large point of concern. The majority of of all shots on game are taking within 100-300 yards (with most within 100-150). At these ranges the difference in trajectory is minimal.

Yankee2718 11-12-2012 15:51

I'd consider the 130 gr bullet to be the mid weight standard for the .270, and 150 gr the mid weight standard for the .30-06. To achieve the same sectional density as a 130 grain .277 bullet, a .308 bullet needs to reach 165 grains in weight. Even at 165 grains, the 130 grain .277 bullet has a much higher ballistic coefficient.

As someone on here said, the argument is rather academic. Trajectory and impact energy are so similar that the differences don't matter for 99.9% of common application. I currently use a .30-06 and have never fired a .270 Winchester.

I think my question should have been - is there any game the .30-06 can take that the .270 can't? I have a feeling that in North America the differences between the two cartridges are academic.

Happypuppy 11-12-2012 15:59

I have used a .270 for decades. It is my preferred round at 130 grains. I find it very flat shooting and I have used it all the way to Elk with good success. Is one better than the other? No, just loading a have specific characteristics that you find you like. The closest bullet to the 130 grain I find is the 165 grain .30 caliber.


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countrygun 11-12-2012 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by glockman10mm (Post 19623762)
Another thing about the two that is a consideration, is the 270 has a little more sectional density to it, which helps with penetration.

Not quite the whole story. In a given weight yes, just as in a given weight the 6.5x55 will have more SD than the .270. The 06 can meet or exceed the SD of the .270 with a heavier bullet and has the ability to go to heavier for diameter bullets than the .270 due to less pressure with the larger diameter and more case room.

K.Kiser 11-12-2012 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrygun (Post 19623854)
Not quite the whole story. In a given weight yes, just as in a given weight the 6.5x55 will have more SD than the .270. The 06 can meet or exceed the SD of the .270 with a heavier bullet and has the ability to go to heavier for diameter bullets than the .270 due to less pressure with the larger diameter and more case room.

This is accurate.. I feel there's no appreciable difference in the cartridges until the intended game get up to Elk size, and then it's still not a drastic difference but like said the ability to spit heavier bullets from the 06' can be useful on a bad shot where heavy bone gets hit..

I like them both, and for anything that exists in most of America it wouldn't make me any difference.. We don't own any .270's anymore but still load for a couple other folks... The 140 grain Barnes has yet to let a deer/hog move outta the immediate impact area..

Yankee2718 11-12-2012 17:02

Duplicate

countrygun 11-12-2012 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankee2718 (Post 19623801)
I'd consider the 130 gr bullet to be the mid weight standard for the .270, and 150 gr the mid weight standard for the .30-06. To achieve the same sectional density as a 130 grain .277 bullet, a .308 bullet needs to reach 165 grains in weight. Even at 165 grains, the 130 grain .277 bullet has a much higher ballistic coefficient.

As someone on here said, the argument is rather academic. Trajectory and impact energy are so similar that the differences don't matter for 99.9% of common application. I currently use a .30-06 and have never fired a .270 Winchester.

I think my question should have been - is there any game the .30-06 can take that the .270 can't? I have a feeling that in North America the differences between the two cartridges are academic.

The 165 is my "standard light" in the 06. it happens to be the weight most of my 06s like for accuracy. I wouldn't worry bout shooting too much with a .270 given a "perfect shot" , but on an elk or bear I like the option of a "raking shot" (diagonal to the "Off" shoulder or hip depending of facing towards or away) with a heavier bullet that I would have to pass on with a .270.

Yankee2718 11-12-2012 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrygun (Post 19624125)
The 165 is my "standard light" in the 06. it happens to be the weight most of my 06s like for accuracy. I wouldn't worry bout shooting too much with a .270 given a "perfect shot" , but on an elk or bear I like the option of a "raking shot" (diagonal to the "Off" shoulder or hip depending of facing towards or away) with a heavier bullet that I would have to pass on with a .270.

I just stick with 180 grain .30-06. The areas I'm hunting currently are best suited to my iron sighted .30-30. I'm using a 150 grain Federal Power Shok JSP.

fredj338 11-12-2012 18:55

I am not a fan of either round, but the 06 can handle heavier bullets w/ enough vel to take anything that walks the planet.
With 220gr solids, it has taken all the DG in Africa as well as the largest bears. I prefer a 280 & 338-06, but I am just a bit on the odd side.:cool:

Bigpoppie50 11-12-2012 18:59

I've shot many deer with my 06 and I would say 98% of them dropped dead in their tracks. Deer were shot with a Remington Model760 BDL using Federal 165 grain boattail ammo. All deer were shot in Ranges from 50yds. to 270yds.

dkf 11-12-2012 20:01

I have factory 30-06 loads from 55gr to 220gr. Can load heavier. The 30-06 is a more versatile round but that does not mean the .270 is a slouch.


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