I do not accept any responsibility for my load if used by others.
In MY 23 my go to load is 5.8 grains of WSF and a Lee tumble lube 175 grain truncated cone bullet for a measured 950 fps.
I don't remember my favorite 40S&W load, but I use bulk Winchester 180 JHP's, AA7 powder. Book loads that test about 950 fps.
One of the most consistent loads I've tried is 4.4gr of TiteGroup (180gr FMJ/JHP) @ 1.130" and does right at 900 fps from a G23.
Power Pistol is a personal favorite, very consistent and good for "normal" level loads. Here's what I got:
(bone stock G23 Gen4, CCI SP primers)
180gr Gold Dot, 7.2gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1065 fps avg
165gr Gold Dot, 8.0gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1154 fps avg (8 fps extreme spread!)
155gr Rem JHP, 9.0 gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1246 fps avg
135gr Nosler JHP, 10.0gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,372 fps avg
7.2gr Power Pistol and 6.5gr Unique will both do about 1150 from a Glock 35 and right around 1200 fps from a G24 (6" bbl).
8.5gr of Longshot (**6% over book**) will shoot a 180gr XTP at an average of 1,330 fps from a 6" bbl. Warm and very consistent, 15fps extreme spread.
**I worked this load up, and I use it in an aftermarket KKM barrel**
I have tons of load data I've worked up.
I've found Longshot to have a certain characteristic about it. I've had some for a while now and what always bummed me out about Longshot was that it just seemed like I could never get out of it what Hodgdon claimed. I would load up to book max and even in a longer barrel would come up noticeably short in velocity. Not only that, but often the velocity would be erratic with wide spreads. Driving it faster seems to make it more consistent.
Keep in mind I run these loads through my Gen4 G35 with a 6" G24 KKM barrel installed. It has better case support than the stock barrel and the added length is a plus. I used to load for the 10mm but recently got rid of it, and I've been keeping my eye on what 10mm guys are doing in their setups for quite some time.
One thing you'll notice right off the bat is that most who load for the 10mm end up buying aftermarket barrels for their 10mm (often 6") and then they start in with their "warm" handloads. Go on over to the 10mm reloading section and see for yourself, there are loads listed there that are anywhere from 10% to 25% over book max charges.
As with all things, this is a topic of debate, but I feel (as do others) that the .40 S&W case is stronger than the 10mm case. Notice how all three cartridges, one based off the 10mm, one based off the .40, have a different max PSI rating. 10mm is rated at 37,500 PSI, the .40 S&W is rated at 35,000 PSI and the 357 Sig is rated at 40,000 PSI. But why?
Here is my question, why isn't the .40 also rated the same as the 357 Sig? Why isn't the .40 rated, at the very least, the same as the 10mm? I know that the .40 case isn't any weaker than the 10mm or 357 Sig case.
The .40 and 357 Sig use small primer pockets while the 10mm uses a large primer pocket. To keep it short and sweet, there's more material in the case of the .40 and 357 Sig than there is the 10mm, and more material means more support. Additionally, the .40 was originally rated for 35K PSI and several years later it was beefed up, but the 35K rating never changed, and hasn't so far. IMHO, there's no reason the .40 shouldn't be rated for 40K PSI as well.
What I'm getting at is this, 10mm guys are loading well beyond book max in a case that's not quite as strong as the .40. What I've been messing around with for quite some time is doing the same thing as the 10mm guys do with their 10's, but instead I'm using a .40. I've gotten some very interesting results, but I've already come to the conclusion that there aren't too many loading the .40 to what it's capable of.
Back to Longshot, I've figured out that in the .40 you need to go slightly over book with LS to make it come alive. Please note, my results are from my setup and I DO NOT advise anybody to use my data in their gun, it's not plug and play. You can use my data for reference, but if you decide to get the most out of your .40, first off work up your loads and secondly make sure you have an aftermarket barrel with better case support. A heavier recoil spring is recommended as well (22-24lb) and a comp would help out too.
I haven't messed around a lot with 135gr or 200gr in Longshot, but I have some interesting figures for the rest. I use CCI SP primers and 1x Federal ("Federal" stamped, do not use "FC" stamped) brass. Velocities are averages from the 6" G24 KKM bbl. NOTE: I feel 10% over book is about it, don't go beyond. As you see, there's no reason to push it further.
180gr Montana Gold JHP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.130" = 1,327 fps (approx 6% over book max)
180gr Montana Gold JHP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.125" = 1,402 fps (10% over book) That's 786 ft-lbs!
165gr Gold Dot, 9.0gr* Longshot @ 1.130" = 1,412 fps (See * below)
165gr Gold Dot, 9.5gr* Longshot @ 1.130" = 1,485 fps / 808 ft-lbs!
155gr Rem JHP, 10.8gr Longshot @ 1.125" = 1,554 fps (8% over book max) That's 831 ft-lbs!
*Hodgdon data is low for the 165gr, but I know why. They use the 165gr Sierra JHP, which is a rather long 165gr JHP. The 165gr Gold Dot is considerably shorter. Based on what Hodgdon claims for the other bullet weights, I calculated that a 165gr Longshot charge should be around 9.0-9.2gr.
As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the "book" Longshot loads weren't very consistent, but driven a little harder the numbers got a whole better and the velocity spread tightened down a whole lot too. Longshot is a fairly slow burning powder and it meters very well also, which is a plus, and it's somewhat common too. Maybe this will inform some people of what the .40 is capable of.
Same warning applies, this is my data in my setup. You can use it for reference, but if you look to load some for yourself, work up the loads in your gun.
Gen4 G35 w/KKM G24 (6") bbl. Once fired Federal brass and CCI SP primers. About 40 degrees outside.
135gr Nosler JHP, 12.6gr Longshot @ 1.125" : 1,849 fps avg / 1,026 ft-lbs (31 fps ES)
200gr Hornady XTP, 7.7gr 800x @ 1.130": 1,228 fps avg.
Shot the 200gr XTP into some water jugs, penetrated 5 jugs and bounced off the sixth. Mushroomed nicely and penetrated well, most don't make it past the 4th jug.
11.0 grains of Bluedot under 180grn bullet. 10mm.
Speaking of Blue Dot, I have some but have yet to load too many for it. But I have done a few. I do know that, like most loads, it's all about finding the sweet spot. Even some minor OAL variations can make a difference.
When I loaded for the 10mm, 10.5gr of BD would get me around 1150 fps from a stock G20sf. The stock barrel would work the brass pretty good though and put some Glock-belly on it.
In the G35, a 180gr MG JHP, 9.0gr Blue Dot @ 1.100": 1,201 fps (nicely consistent, 13 fps ES). The same bullet loaded to 1.125" was slightly slower but definitely less consistent.
For 200gr Nosler JHP, 8.5gr Blue Dot @ 1.130": 1,165 fps (52 ES)
SD thanks for posting all this data, longshot seems to be the cats meow for the 40/10mm bore. I've gone up to 8.2 grains of PP under a zero 180 grain bullet at 1.150 and got 1375 fps out of my 24. Mine still has the stock barrel but has a shocking amount of case support. Probably the best i've ever seen for a glock and on par with most aftermarket barrels ive looked at.
Is your G24 a newer model? My Gen4 G35 has pretty good case support too, but I will say the newer .40's have much better support than older ones. I just decided to use the G24 KKM barrel since it was a tad tighter plus the extra length helped give some more velocity. I've recently wondered what the LW 9" barrel would go velocity wise, but that's $150 I don't need to spend right now!
In my G23 40 cal I like the 180 Speer GD and Blue Dot powder.
In my G20 10MM I like 200XTP and 175 ST. With Longshot powder.
Not sure how many have any VV 3N38, but it does well:
(Gen4 G35 w/6" KKM G24 bbl)
165gr Gold Dot, 10.7gr 3N38 @ 1.150" : 1,392 fps avg (7 fps ES!)
175gr Win STHP, 9.8gr 3N38 @ 1.140": 1,288 fps avg (17 fps ES!) 645 ft-lbs (Winchester claims 1290 for their 10mm load, yet only does about 1150 fps, here I'm getting it!)
180gr LaserCast RNFP hardcast (.38-40 bullet), 9.8gr 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,338 fps avg (9 fps ES!) 715 ft-lbs
180gr Hornady XTP, 9.5gr 3N38 @ 1.150" : 1,269 fps avg (13 fps ES!)
200gr WFNGC, 8.5gr 3N38 @ 1.150" : 1,195 fps avg (10 fps ES!)
If you want to make your .40 feel like a 9mm -P, 3.8gr TiteGroup with a 180gr @ 1.140". So soft it almost tickles.
Here are a few more, ran through the stock G35 Gen4 (5.3" bbl)
180gr FMJ, 6.2gr AutoComp @ 1.125": 1,035 fps (4 FPS ES!!!)
180gr MG JHP, 8.3gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,260 fps
180gr MG JHP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1, 271 fps
165gr Gold Dot, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1. 130": 1,310 fps
155gr Rem JHP, 10.5gr Longshot @ 1.125": 1,408 fps
Not as fast as what I get from the 6" KKM barrel, but good nonetheless. Brass looked okay. Yes there was some Glock belly on the brass, but it happened on all loads, not just the warm Longshot loads.
Few small goodies from today. Shooting Gen4 G27, velocities are averages:
180gr FMJ, 4.4gr TiteGroup @ 1.125": 857 fps
180gr MG JHP, 5.8gr WSF @ 1.125": 930 fps
180gr MG JHP, 6.3gr AutoComp @ 1.125": 996 fps
180gr MG JHP, 6.5gr Unique @ 1.125": 1,022 fps (13 fps ES)
180gr MG JHP, 7.2gr Power Pistol @ 1.120": 1,044 fps (19 fps ES)
180gr Rem JHP, 9.0gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130" : 1,091 fps
165gr Gold Dot, 10.2gr VV 3N38 @ 1.125": 1,188 fps
155gr XTP, 9.0gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,196 fps (7 fps ES)
155gr Rem JHP, 11.0gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,263 fps
135gr Nos JHP, 11.2gr 800x @ 1.125": 1,388 fps
SDGlock23 I wish you lived in the Boise Idaho area.
I have a mod.27 and want to try some cast 175 lee in
it with Longshot, still waiting on the mold to get here.
I have a LW 4.059'' threaded barrel and am getting a
4.6'' LW threaded barrel to get more fps. Keep sending
all information, please.
I normally shoot mag. revolvers but am going to try the
lighter Glocks for a trail gun, am also building a 460 Rowland
on a mod. 30, still waiting on the barrels for it too.
Can't wait to try them on deer this year.
(This data was taken from a 6" KKM barrel. With a 175gr hardcast I would drop charge to around 8.0gr and work up. Velocity is average)
170gr SWC, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.125": 1,449 fps (20 fps ES!) That's 792 ft-lbs.
I just noticed that I don't have any data for 180gr hardcasts with Longshot. VV 3N38 and 800x both got almost 1,350 fps from the 6" KKM, but strangely enough I don't have any using Longshot. I'll have to remedy that.
Good luck on that 460 Rowland! I would imagine working with 250-280gr hardcasts in that would be awesome.
Okay, I got to run a few more this afternoon through the G27 Gen4. This time my main goal was to see what Longshot can do. Here it goes, working up from 8.0gr.
(Precision Delta 180gr FMJ used, 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers)
180gr FMJ, 8.2gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,125 fps (22 fps ES!)
180gr FMJ, 8.4gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,104 fps (28 fps ES)
180gr FMJ, 8.6gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,128 fps (21 fps ES!)
Brass looked good. Some "bulge" but even the 4.4gr TG load put some bulge in the brass. The chamber support for the newer .40's is quite a bit better than it used to be...not KKM good, but not bad for stock.
From the looks of things, 8.2gr is good enough. .4gr more powder (the 8.6gr load) only averaged 3 fps faster. .2gr more (8.4gr load) actually got slower, which I've seen before when I used to load for the 10mm. All in all, a 180gr bullet moving at 1,125 fps (506 ft-lbs) from a 3.5" barrel is pretty good!
I would imagine it would be a dandy woods load suitable for deer sized game using a good JHP.
Some from the stock G23. All velocities are averages.
4.4gr TiteGroup, 180gr FMJ @ 1.125": 951 fps (5 fps extreme spread!) That was using heavier 22lb recoil spring.
4.4gr TiteGroup, 180gr FMJ @ 1.125": 907 fps (4 fps extreme spread!) This was using stock Gen4 RSA, same load but about 45 fps slower with the stock RSA.
200gr Rainier RNFP, 3.8gr TiteGroup @ 1.140": 834 fps (4 fps ES!)
200gr Missouri TCFP, 3.8gr TiteGroup @ 1.140": 874 fps (7 fps ES!!)
7.0gr 800x, 200gr Nosler JHP @ 1.135": 999 fps (4 fps ES!)
Longshot: I did run a few loads through the G23 but several were not nearly as consistent as others, even wildly so, so I will work on those. However,
8.2gr Longshot, 180gr FMJ @ 1.130": 1,152 fps (42 fps ES)
8.5gr Longshot, 170gr Missouri SWC @ 1.130": 1,246 fps (71 fps ES...not very consistent)
8.0gr Power Pistol, 170gr SWC @ 1.125": 1,202 fps (45 fps ES...better than Longshot but higher than typical for PP)
I've got some more loads using VV 3N38 with the G23 than turned out quite well, I'll post those up shortly!
One of my favorite .40 powders, VV 3N38...hard to come by but worth it.
Stock Glock 23 Gen4 (4" bbl):
170gr Missouri SWC, 9.7gr VV 3N38 @ ~1.130": 1,233 fps (21 fps ES!)
180gr RNFP (38-40 hardcast), 9.4gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,171 fps (6 FPS ES!!)
200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.2gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,061 fps (21 fps ES!)
Very consistent and packs a punch! The 38-40 style RNFP hardcast I feel is a great choice for deep penetration on game. It's got a fairly good sized meplat on it and single digit extreme spreads...almost 1,200 fps with a 180gr from a 4" barrel. From 6" G24 barrel this load does 1,340 fps.
The 200gr Beartooth would be another fantastic hunting bullet. Hopefully somebody can get some use out of this :thumbsup:
Thank you SDGlock23 for this data, I can't wait to get my barrels and moulds.
I want to thank you others that posted your data too.
what do you 40 cal. guys think of this
hope the link works
Have any of you used Universal in a 40?
I had one load that blew a primer behind a 175 grain cast in a lone Wolf barrel. It was from a manual, but I will not state what it was in this forum.
Got my KKM G23 in the mail earlier this week and I've been itchin' to try it out. Fairly nice day, around 70 degrees so here's a few from this afternoon, all using 1x Winchester brass and CCI SP primers:
180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.8gr VV 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,226 fps (26 fps ES) That's 600 ft-lbs from a 4" barrel.
180gr RNFP hardcast, 8.5gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,197 fps (12 fps ES!!)
180gr MG JHP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,208 fps (18 fps ES!)
200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.5gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,088 fps (13 fps ES!!) That's 525 ft-lbs with a 200gr hardcast from a 4" bbl.
220gr SNS TCFP, 6.8gr 800x @ 1.145" (1x Rem, CCI SP): 997 fps (14 fps ES!!)
135gr Nosler JHP, 10.5gr Power Pistol @ 1.120" (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,424 fps
Little bit of a mixed bag, but all shot very well and all were very consistent. The 180gr RNFP is a 38-40 style revolver bullet but I like it because one it's hardcast and two it's got a fairly good sized meplat on it for use on game.
180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.8gr VV 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,226 fps (26 fps ES) That's 600 ft-lbs from a 4" barrel.
Look's like I need some 3N38, thank's for the data, I do have some longshot.
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