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-   -   Win Primers (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1447283)

CaptainXL 10-11-2012 09:42

Win Primers
 
I have been using Federal SP primers for a fair amount of time and like them. However due to shortages of Fed primers the last time I ordered I got some Winchester primers instead.

Used some of the Win primers the other day for the first time and noticed that it takes more pressure to seat the primers than the Federals. In addition, there were a couple of instances when I just couldn't get the Win primers to start in the primer pockets unless I jiggled or slightly turned the case.

Are the cases (outter hulls) of Win primers stiffer than Fed primers? Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Using a Lee Turret press loading .40 S&W.

fredj338 10-11-2012 12:54

I have not had that exp w/ Win or CCI, only Wolf. I have no issues reloading Win on a progressive or priming by hand.

ColoCG 10-11-2012 13:35

I agree with Fred no problems with Win, CCI, Rem, or Fed. I have noticed Wolf and Tula to be a little harder to seat. But not a big problem.

sciolist 10-11-2012 13:52

Similar situation here. I ventured into Winchesters as a substitute for Federals. Yes, the cups are heavier, and the Q/C is not as good as with Federals. The Winchesters are also not 100% reliable with an OEM striker and #4 spring.

I wanted to see what would be needed to get them up to match reliability without sacrificing my trigger weight. So far (only ~2K rounds fired) they are 100% with a Jager striker and #4 spring. Federals always ignite with the OE striker, because their cups are so thin, but this leads to striker tip damage when the cups rupture. I would never have noticed this had I not been looking at striker tips under magnification for other reasons.

My hope is that the Winchester/Jager combo will ultimately prove to be a better overall setup, but will need to get more Winchesters fired before I have complete faith in them with the light striker spring.

Since starting with the Winchesters, I’ve loaded maybe 5K of them, and have seen 4 or 5 that were too deformed to seat. They also don’t run as smoothly through the Dillon tubes or press as the Federals. But they don’t rupture on striker contact. Overall, I like them so far.

CaptainXL 10-11-2012 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sciolist (Post 19507698)
Similar situation here. I ventured into Winchesters as a substitute for Federals. Yes, the cups are heavier, and the Q/C is not as good as with Federals. The Winchesters are also not 100% reliable with an OEM striker and #4 spring.

I wanted to see what would be needed to get them up to match reliability without sacrificing my trigger weight. So far (only ~2K rounds fired) they are 100% with a Jager striker and #4 spring. Federals always ignite with the OE striker, because their cups are so thin, but this leads to striker tip damage when the cups rupture. I would never have noticed this had I not been looking at striker tips under magnification for other reasons.

My hope is that the Winchester/Jager combo will ultimately prove to be a better overall setup, but will need to get more Winchesters fired before I have complete faith in them with the light striker spring.

Since starting with the Winchesters, Iíve loaded maybe 5K of them, and have seen 4 or 5 that were too deformed to seat. They also donít run as smoothly through the Dillon tubes or press as the Federals. But they donít rupture on striker contact. Overall, I like them so far.

I loaded 90 rounds and fired them thru a G34 with LW skeletonized striker & #4 striker spring. Had no ignition problems or any other type of problems with the Win primers. The only problem is with seating them when loading.

I'll go ahead and use the Win primers up (only bought 1K) then will switch back to Fed primers. The only reason I bought the Win primers was because PV was out of Fed's when I placed my last order. Still have about 4K of Fed primers. Hopefully PV will have Fed primers back in stock by the time I place my next order with them.

sciolist 10-12-2012 09:51

Grafs has Federals now.

HAMMERHEAD 10-12-2012 09:56

I have had some issues with Win SPP's not fitting well in Win .357 brass. Some issues with Win LPP's as well in .45 brass.
CCI is my 2nd choice behind Federal.

SJ 40 10-12-2012 13:43

I will not use winchester primers,their lack of quality control especially with primers and affecting most of their components.
Federal is my first choice,usually keep them stocked up at all times. Would use R-P or CCI if I couldn't get Federals. SJ 40

jeffreybehr 10-13-2012 10:58

Hmm...I've used thousands of WSPs with NO failures to seat or failures to fire, in various Glocks with all-stock strikers, springs, etc.

Lucky me, I guess.

Kwesi 10-13-2012 11:12

I've used Win LPP's with no issues. Note: they are a bit hotter and chrono for me at +25 FPS.

ADK_40GLKr 10-13-2012 17:52

I had a mixture of Fed and CCI primers in the batch I tested this afternoon. (This was only my second batch of 25 re-loads.) All the rounds seemed to fire consistently except 1; there appeared to be a good striker mark, but it did not fire. The primer was gold colored, so I guess it was a Federal as the CCI are silver colored.

(Edit: correction: nickel Federals and brass colored Winchester)

I put the FTF round back in the magazine at the end of my range session, and it fired OK.

Brought my G27 home and gave the slide a good detail strip cleaning.

Using 6.8 gn of Power Pistol behind 165 gn plated HP.

Guess I'm ready to make up a batch for next IDPA practice and see how it does.

F106 Fan 10-13-2012 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr (Post 19515128)
I had a mixture of Fed and CCI primers in the batch I tested this afternoon. (This was only my second batch of 25 re-loads.) All the rounds seemed to fire consistently except 1; there appeared to be a good striker mark, but it did not fire. The primer was gold colored, so I guess it was a Federal as the CCI are silver colored.

Which Federal primer were you using? All of the Federals I have ever used were nickel plated. Just curious... I'm pretty sure there are primers, even by Federal, that I haven't run across.

Quote:

Brought my G27 home and gave the slide a good detail strip cleaning.

Using 6.8 gn of Power Pistol behind 165 gn plated HP.

Guess I'm ready to make up a batch for next IDPA practice and see how it does.

Sounds like you are good to go!

Richard

SJ 40 10-13-2012 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19515217)
Which Federal primer were you using? All of the Federals I have ever used were nickel plated. Just curious... I'm pretty sure there are primers, even by Federal, that I haven't run across.




Sounds like you are good to go!

Richard

Agreed,at least going back to the late 70's Federal and CCI have all had nickel plated cups.
If it was a brass non plated cup and not of foreign manufacture it would be winchester,prior to 2005 winchester primer cups were also nickeled. SJ 40

ADK_40GLKr 10-14-2012 16:20

Crs
 
That's what I get from trying to give details from memory. I had two packages of primers: Winchester WSP and Federal #100.

The FTF was a brass colored cup, so I guess that was Winchester.

So maybe my striker channel wasn't gummed up after all, just typical Winchester performance?

F106 Fan 10-14-2012 16:24

This kind of failure to fire can also be caused by not having the primer fully seated in the pocket. The firing pin just moves the primer further forward.

It seems hard to fathom but apparently it is possible.

Richard

ADK_40GLKr 10-14-2012 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19518317)
This kind of failure to fire can also be caused by not having the primer fully seated in the pocket. The firing pin just moves the primer further forward.

It seems hard to fathom but apparently it is possible.

Richard

Maybe I'm NOT QUITE ready to run off a hundred for IDPA yet?..........:faint:

AS I recall, the initial dent in the primer WAS slightly off center, which might reinforce your theory.

I think SARDGE mentioned using a consistent stroke on that lever. Guess I'd better make a few extras and plan on a few "malfunction drills" during my IDPA practice!

(Was I this clueless about Glocks when I joined 2 years ago????)

ColoCG 10-15-2012 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19518317)
This kind of failure to fire can also be caused by not having the primer fully seated in the pocket. The firing pin just moves the primer further forward.

It seems hard to fathom but apparently it is possible.

Richard


I agree with Richard, it was probably a high primer if it fired the 2nd time fine. If Win or most other primers are seated flush or below they ussually go off with stock gun and springs with no problems.

Kwesi 10-17-2012 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainXL (Post 19506899)
In addition, there were a couple of instances when I just couldn't get the Win primers to start in the primer pockets unless I jiggled or slightly turned the case.

Yesterday I loaded 9mm with Win SPP & experienced exactly what the OP stated above. I'm using mixed range pickup brass & loading on a Dillon 550. While turning the case slightly helped most of the time I felt resistance on seating the primer there were some that I couldn't seat. I adjusted the "paper clip" in station 1 closer to the case. Will see if this eliminates having to turn the case. I've mostly used Win LPP's without these issues. Picked up 5K SPP's recently.

dla 10-17-2012 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr (Post 19515128)
I had a mixture of Fed and CCI primers in the batch I tested this afternoon. (This was only my second batch of 25 re-loads.) All the rounds seemed to fire consistently except 1; there appeared to be a good striker mark, but it did not fire. The primer was gold colored, so I guess it was a Federal as the CCI are silver colored.

(Edit: correction: nickel Federals and brass colored Winchester)

I put the FTF round back in the magazine at the end of my range session, and it fired OK.

Brought my G27 home and gave the slide a good detail strip cleaning.

Using 6.8 gn of Power Pistol behind 165 gn plated HP.

Guess I'm ready to make up a batch for next IDPA practice and see how it does.

You're doing something wrong in your priming process. Probably not seating them deep enough. No way should you need a restrike to fire.

I used a zillion Winchester primers - never ever had a dud. Unless they had QC problems at the end of the Obama scare, I'm calling Bull on this Winchester quality myth.

TX Archer 10-17-2012 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dla (Post 19527150)
You're doing something wrong in your priming process. Probably not seating them deep enough. No way should you need a restrike to fire.

Or a gunky striker channel in his G27.


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