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-   -   Brass To Face! Gen 4 G17 Ejection Examined (Video) (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446570)

Raleigh Glocker 10-07-2012 01:32

Brass To Face! Gen 4 G17 Ejection Examined (Video)
 
Well, I set out to make a video showing how great the ejection was in my Gen 4 G17. I've had roughly 900 rounds of perfect ejection, with lots of video to prove it on my YouTube channel.

Half way through getting my footage for this video, it happened. I started to get BTF.

I demonstrate the ejection of WWB, Speer Lawman 115gr FMJ, and Ranger T-Series 127gr +p+. Each of them ejected just fine for me previously, but by the time I switched camera angles, they all started to shoot brass into my face.
:faint:

As I show you, this BTF doesn't matter what ammo is being used, and it doesn't matter how you hold the pistol. There is definitely something that has shifted with how this pistol is engaging and ejecting brass, though I can't see anything wrong with the extractor that looks like abnormal wear.

This seems to match the new experience mentioned by others here, where you get great ejection from brand new Gen 4 9mms for a while only to have it end up in your face after 800 rounds or so.

Check it out and see for yourself.


ETA: Here are the companion videos. The slow motion comparison is especially revealing.

Brass Not To Face! Gen 4 G23 Ejection Examined

Slow Motion Glocks! Gen 4 G17 & G23 Ejection Compared

zee90 10-07-2012 01:54

Do you have the updated 043 RSA and 30274 ejector? Also, you mentioned you have an extractor made from the number 2 mold. Was this a pre-Nov 2011 gen4 with the older MiM extractor?

Tiro Fijo 10-07-2012 02:19

A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

B. lose the operator gloves as they are over the top for the pistol range

C. make shorter vids that are to the point.

packinaglock 10-07-2012 05:01

Good review, this is happening to quite a few people at the 800-1000 round mark. I'm starting to think Gaston pissed off a Gypsy a couple years back and she cursed him. :supergrin:

ricklee4570 10-07-2012 05:11

What is really baffling is the number of cases where people go 1000 troublefree rounds only to have this start. What could be causing this? Everyone keeps changing parts to no avail.

With all the great gunsmiths out there, it is crazy that no surefire solution has been found.

RonS 10-07-2012 05:29

It was interesting to watch how the ejection changed over time. It seemed to me that from in the video @ 6:30 to 6:43 the ejection pattern began to change. The first shots went well clear of the shooters arm to the outside, then a couple fell on the arm, then away again then the trajectory swung to the rear as the gun began to eject up and back instead of to the right.

If I had to bet on the cause I would bet that the ejector is now contacting the case head closer to the center of the case. When I get a chance I think I'll get my 26 out and see how much room there is for the ejector to move or flex. I could easily be completely off base of course.

Raleigh Glocker 10-07-2012 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo (Post 19493033)
A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

B. lose the operator gloves as they are over the top for the pistol range

C. make shorter vids that are to the point.

So, you're saying that I'm breaking my wrists with a two-handed grip moreso than when I'm barely holding the pistol in the first clip and getting normal ejection? Heck, I do the tea cup pinky and all... :dunno:

I've got 24 years shooting Glocks with no brass to face except for the first few boxes I ran through my brand new Gen 4 G23 two years ago. It was known then that the RSA was stiff and needed to be broken in, so it didn't bother me.

I've got countless posts here on Gen 4 threads saying, "Mine eject great, thanks!" I've used that G17 in other videos for my YouTube channel, showing beautiful ejection.

I shot 500 rounds that day out of the G17, giving it every chance to stop ejecting BTF. It did not. Once it started, the ejection kept hitting my shoulder and face and going over my head. I practically choked the brown out of it, and it still sent brass towards my shoulder and head.

As to point "C.", I realize that some just want to see one single clip of only shooting. The video of my Gen 4 G23 I'm finishing today will be more to your liking, I think.

That said, I make the kind of video I like to watch, and luckily, others do, too. I appreciate you taking the time to watch it and comment, though.

Raleigh Glocker 10-07-2012 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonS (Post 19493113)
It was interesting to watch how the ejection changed over time. It seemed to me that from in the video @ 6:30 to 6:43 the ejection pattern began to change. The first shots went well clear of the shooters arm to the outside, then a couple fell on the arm, then away again then the trajectory swung to the rear as the gun began to eject up and back instead of to the right.

If I had to bet on the cause I would bet that the ejector is now contacting the case head closer to the center of the case. When I get a chance I think I'll get my 26 out and see how much room there is for the ejector to move or flex. I could easily be completely off base of course.

It leaves me thinking that the extractor is wearing somehow, but I don't see any wear on it that is different from my other Glocks. I thought I read that some are getting machined extractors from Glock to replace their MIM extractors. I'll see what Glock says when I call them this week.

Raleigh Glocker 10-07-2012 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by zee90 (Post 19493025)
Do you have the updated 043 RSA and 30274 ejector? Also, you mentioned you have an extractor made from the number 2 mold. Was this a pre-Nov 2011 gen4 with the older MiM extractor?

This is a Dark Earth Gen 4 G17 with a test fire date of 3/6/12. It has a 042 RSA and the 30274 ejector. The extractor is clearly a MIM extractor from the #2 mold. I plan to post some good pics on the TWANGnBANG Facebook page and will link here when I do.

I'm not sure why a change in RSA would be needed unless mine already wore out. Heck, the original RSAs were so stiff, they had to be broken in to get rid of the BTF. :)

faawrenchbndr 10-07-2012 06:08

Replace the Gen 4 with an older 3rd Gen........problem solved!
It's what I did.

Fire_Medic 10-07-2012 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker (Post 19493138)
This is a Dark Earth Gen 4 G17 with a test fire date of 3/6/12. It has a 042 RSA and the 30274 ejector. The extractor is clearly a MIM extractor from the #2 mold. I plan to post some good pics on the TWANGnBANG Facebook page and will link here when I do.

I'm not sure why a change in RSA would be needed unless mine already wore out. Heck, the original RSAs were so stiff, they had to be broken in to get rid of the BTF. :)

I started having the same issues at over 2K rounds, crazy stuff huh.

I don't know if it was a typo or not on your behalf, or if it would even help your pistol but the latest RSA is the 0-4-3, which my pistol does have. The latest ejector is the 30274 which my gun also came with. I'm over 3K rounds now so they're sending me a new RSA to try as we'll as a new extractor. I'm curious to see if there will be anything different with the new extractor they're sending me, and if this will change anything. I am anxious to try an Apex extractor on their next run if the new Glock part does not work. Good luck with your pistol, if the new parts are not the fix for me I will be reluctantly sending my gun back to the factory knowing full well they will probably end up replacing it.

faawrenchbndr 10-07-2012 06:34

Gabe,

A while back a few had luck with using a 40 S&W extractor.
How did that work out?

plouffedaddy 10-07-2012 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo (Post 19493033)
A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

No you're not.

Moving on... Great video. I had to make a few of these videos myself when I had a problematic G19 (PYU serial number). I have over 20 Glocks that were trouble free and 1 bad one--it wasn't me. In the end Glock replaced it and the replacement has been 100% trouble/issue free.

Raleigh Glocker 10-07-2012 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by plouffedaddy (Post 19493189)
No you're not.

Moving on... Great video. I had to make a few of these videos myself when I had a problematic G19 (PYU serial number). I have over 20 Glocks that were trouble free and 1 bad one--it wasn't me. In the end Glock replaced it and the replacement has been 100% trouble/issue free.

Your vids I think were the first that I saw where anyone claiming you had bad form revealed themselves as wannabes. :) There are a few others out there now that show the same as yours- good form, good ammo, and BTF.

I seriously wanted to do a similar video showing awesome ejection from my trouble-free Gen 4s. Darnit if I wasn't cursed for trying.

Raleigh Glocker 10-07-2012 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire_Medic (Post 19493179)
I started having the same issues at over 2K rounds, crazy stuff huh.

I don't know if it was a typo or not on your behalf, or if it would even help your pistol but the latest RSA is the 0-4-3, which my pistol does have. The latest ejector is the 30274 which my gun also came with. I'm over 3K rounds now so they're sending me a new RSA to try as we'll as a new extractor. I'm curious to see if there will be anything different with the new extractor they're sending me, and if this will change anything. I am anxious to try an Apex extractor on their next run if the new Glock part does not work. Good luck with your pistol, if the new parts are not the fix for me I will be reluctantly sending my gun back to the factory knowing full well they will probably end up replacing it.

Nope. It is indeed a 042 RSA, so I guess that will be replaced with the 043. I will also ask about a new extractor. Did they mention whether they were sending you another MIM extractor or a machined one?

4949shooter 10-07-2012 07:07

Good video.

I would be curious to know what steps Glock is taking to correct these issues, if any. Who knows? Glock inc. might be selling so many pistols that they don't care about the (possibly few) numbers that exhibit BTF.

My guess is that most gun owners don't shoot thousands of rounds through their guns like we do. Typical example...I took my buddy down to the LGS and got him a deal on a Gen 4 G22. We went to the range twice and put a few boxes through it with the gun working great. Now I can't get him to go back to the range unless I twist his arm. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of gun owners fall into this category. A Glock that throws BTF after a thousand rounds will never become an issue for these folks. And Glock keeps selling guns and making money. It's all about $$.

SJ 40 10-07-2012 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker (Post 19493203)
Nope. It is indeed a 042 RSA, so I guess that will be replaced with the 043. I will also ask about a new extractor. Did they mention whether they were sending you another MIM extractor or a machined one?

My understanding is the so called new extractor is still MiMed but with out the dip of the so called dipped MiMed extractor-Old.
Prior to that the extractors were investment cast,I have a 1999 and 2002 that are both machined extractors.
SJ 40

dhgeyer 10-07-2012 07:18

Possible explanation:

In another thread: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1444851 I showed pictures of my home made Spring Loaded Bearing (SLB). JBS asked me if I had noticed wear to the front of the Extractor Depressor Plunger (EDP) where it enters the slide at the front. At first I said no, but on closer examination, yes there was definitely scoring in that location after about 500 rounds. JBS said that he had seen extensive wear in this area on a number of guns. As a result of this I made my own EDP to go with my SLB. In my last picture you can plainly see the wear starting on the factory part. This, if allowed to continue, could definitely cause binding in the action of the extractor. You might want to check your EDP for this.

On second thought, why make you read the entire old thread. Here's the image of the worn EDP along with my home made one. Mine top, factory bottom.

http://www.gallery1700.net/linkto/plunger01.jpg

SJ 40 10-07-2012 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4949shooter (Post 19493239)
Good video.

I would be curious to know what steps Glock is taking to correct these issues, if any. Who knows? Glock inc. might be selling so many pistols that they don't care about the (possibly few) numbers that exhibit BTF.

My guess is that most gun owners don't shoot thousands of rounds through their guns like we do. Typical example...I took my buddy down to the LGS and got him a deal on a Gen 4 G22. We went to the range twice and put a few boxes through it with the gun working great. Now I can't get him to go back to the range unless I twist his arm. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of gun owners fall into this category. A Glock that throws BTF after a thousand rounds will never become an issue for these folks. And Glock keeps selling guns and making money. It's all about $$.

4949 Shooter
I think you have come up with a reasonable theory .
Many gun owners are not shooters as many deer hunters are not shooters.
I know many hunters that may or may not take their rifle to the range to check sights once or twice a year.
Then I know a couple that are practicing different positions,differing ranges all the time looking to improve their shooting.
I suspect the same holds true for Glock owners,shooters.
SJ 40

FFR Spyder GT 10-07-2012 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo (Post 19493033)
A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

B. lose the operator gloves as they are over the top for the pistol range

C. make shorter vids that are to the point.

+1!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker (Post 19493122)
So, you're saying that I'm breaking my wrists with a two-handed grip moreso than when I'm barely holding the pistol in the first clip and getting normal ejection? Heck, I do the tea cup pinky and all... :dunno:

I've got 24 years shooting Glocks

.

Yeah, but you're doing it wrong that's why you're getting BTF.

Ditch the gloves, stand up straight ( I've never understood the "Look at my butt, ain't it cute?" stance ) learn how to grip your Glock and the BTF problem will go away.

Thanks for posting the video because it clears shows what you are doing wrong.

Pretty simple.


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