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-   -   APEX Extractors (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446533)

153 10-06-2012 18:07

APEX Extractors
 
They are out, and expensive...

We had one thread about the Apex, but it was closed. Any other proud owners of this possible BTF cure have any observations.

dhgeyer 10-06-2012 18:32

Here's an active thread in which the Apex manufacturer is participating.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=87993&page=15

EDIT: You will need to keep updating the page number at the end as needed.

SJ 40 10-06-2012 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by 153 (Post 19492076)
They are out, and expensive...

We had one thread about the Apex, but it was closed. Any other proud owners of this possible BTF cure have any observations.

Expensive compared to what a 450.00-500.00 Glock,if it fixes Glocks shortcomings I think 60.00 is a bargain. SJ 40

samuse 10-06-2012 20:53

I don't know. It looks promising but I'm not sure that it's a definite solution yet.

llcoolj_2222 10-06-2012 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJ 40 (Post 19492252)
Expensive compared to what a 450.00-500.00 Glock,if it fixes Glocks shortcomings I think 60.00 is a bargain. SJ 40

60$ is ******** over 10% of the product end user price, for a part that glock should have been providing in the first place..

diamondd2 10-06-2012 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by llcoolj_2222 (Post 19492884)
60$ is ******** over 10% of the product end user price, for a part that glock should have been providing in the first place..


I dont know about that. If you read the reviews on m4carbine it seems BTF is cured but weak ejection still exists. I can get to no BTF and weak ejection by polishing the Glock extractors.

faawrenchbndr 10-07-2012 04:23

Here is the fix,.......for $10


http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pro....E.D.-9mm.html

3rdgen40 10-07-2012 04:50

Nothing like buying a brand new gun,then having to "fix" it.Glock "Perfection"...LOL!

faawrenchbndr 10-07-2012 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdgen40 (Post 19493090)
Nothing like buying a brand new gun,then having to "fix" it.Glock "Perfection"...LOL!

Neat huh,........how is the S&W running?

mo.glocker 10-07-2012 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19493072)

i might have to try one,does the spring show in the ejection port?good god!,do you think they have a long enough explanation(lol)jef817:dunno:

SJ 40 10-07-2012 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by llcoolj_2222 (Post 19492884)
60$ is ******** over 10% of the product end user price, for a part that glock should have been providing in the first place..

Glock should be shipping workable guns from the factory,no dispute.
They aren't.
Glock-factory OEM- MiMed extractor - cost for them to produce that part,we will most likely find out,guess 2.00.

Apex- replacement extractor-tool steel-EDM machined,comes with SLB extractor depressor plunger and EDP spring.

Again we will most likely find out the cost to produce ,if one understands the methods used to produce the two parts,the apex part is more costly to produce.

Mim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_injection_molding

EDM machining
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...arge_machining
http://www.edmmachining.com/

EDM is a more costly,precise part produced of solid steel rather than powdered metal with a plastic binder,heated.
I know which of the two will wear better,hold up longer.
SJ 40

3rdgen40 10-07-2012 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19493148)
Neat huh,........how is the S&W running?

Like a Swiss watch....:cool:

Glock2336 10-07-2012 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19493072)



Wish it fixed mine... Oh and it is $20. :supergrin:

jbglock 10-07-2012 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 19493072)

According to them you should not buy that to fix BTF.
From that link...
"That said, Glock pistols are well engineered, so if you have one that will not function with OEM components, something is out of tolerance. The root issue should be identified, even if installing the H.R.E.D. resolves the problem."

I don't agree. I feel the issue is nothing more than the new RSA's being too strong. Of course they sort of agree (slide velocity) if you read everything they write about their part. They just address it a different way than going to a lighter recoil spring assembly.

TheExplorer 10-07-2012 16:48

Link for those interested.https://apextactical.com/store/produ...php?pid67.html
Only for 9mm owners right now which I don't understand since 40 and 45 GAP are doing it as well.

Glock2336 10-07-2012 16:53

And to people complaining about the price, Randy Lee explains why...

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Lee:
Greetings all,

I wanted to chime in on a few things. First, I have been constantly monitoring this and various forums to see the responses as to what people think about the price, our marketing and more importantly, the functioning of our extractor. I find it rather sad that many would judge me, my company or its' practices without ever knowing who we are personally, nor the development of a complex product like the extractor.

For those who find it distasteful that we would charge $60.00 for the part, I would ask you to take your Glock factory extractor to a local machine shop and get a quote from them to machine. I think the reality of the actual cost might just surprise you. You will need to factor in the material, heat treat pricing and finishing. Many will find that their local machine shop won't even touch the project. Then there is always the possibility that the reproduction you have made won't work or fit. Back to square one, redesign and pay for more prototypes to be made before you can get to the point that you can produce the part for sale.

Eleven beta testers from around the country began running guns with our extractors over the past year. Their data was necessary to prove that our part was designed correctly and did the job under a variety of conditions. Some of them would publicly post results to let others know, good or bad how the product was performing. It was not a sleazy marketing attempt as some have alluded to. And I find it sad that some of the responses to them were beyond disrespectful. To them I publicly apologize for putting them in a position where they needed to defend their good names and reputations.

I began working on the project after several dear friends who are LEOs asked for help because they are required to carry the Gen 3 and 4 guns and have no confidence in them to perform when their lives or others are on the line. It wasn't to make loads of money, or sell snake oil as one person put it on another forum. It was to help them. Period. Is sixty dollars a lot for an extractor and a spring? Yes. Please mention that to the families of the officers who have installed our kit in their duty pistols.

As Scott said, we will continue to look at price reducing manufacturing techniques. But I will be damned if I am going to do anything that sacrifices the safety margins I designed into this or any other part we sell. I have seen enough of this in our industry and I am tired of it.

-Randy
Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Lee:
Please bear in mind that prototype runs are expensive. 11 parts at over $100.00 per part. That was the third iteration that was sent to the beta testers so the cost adds up quickly. Eleven testers who put the part in several different guns, and even let friends install the parts in their guns to broaden the sample size.

There is a limit to our financial resources, and I am not about to ask my employees if they wouldn't mind taking a cut in pay to have an order of magnitude larger sample population.

The other part of this story is that it is a self limiting market. Sooner or later the factory will figure out the solution. The question is how long? And how long do those individuals who are experiencing (and are affected by it- two very different groups)want to wait for a solution? For a large manufacturer like Glock, reverse engineering can be a very simple matter. I never intended our extractor to sell in droves. That was not my goal.

-Randy


more info here:
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...3440056003/p/4


Disclaimer: I was one of the 11 Beta Testers of Apex's extractor but NOT an employee or paid for my testing.

jbglock 10-07-2012 16:57

If he is monitoring forums then he will probably see this thread. I'd advise him to hire a tool maker so he can get things like this made when he needs them.

Glock2336 10-07-2012 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheExplorer (Post 19494875)
Link for those interested.https://apextactical.com/store/produ...php?pid67.html
Only for 9mm owners right now which I don't understand since 40 and 45 GAP are doing it as well.


My last post may explain it but all the extra R&D, labor, machining of additional prototypes at $100 a pop, finding willing beta testers, additional adjustments, taking time away from other projects that make them money right now, other projects, answering phones, emails, gunsmithing, watching forum posts, intructing, competing and trying to have a life makes each project a lot of work.


Apex is comprised of 3 main people with a few recent hires as support.

Glock2336 10-07-2012 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbglock (Post 19494898)
If he is monitoring forums then he will probably see this thread. I'd advise him to hire a tool maker so he can get things like this made when he needs them.


I'm pretty sure Randy is aware of what his company needs :whistling:

jbglock 10-07-2012 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock2336 (Post 19494909)
I'm pretty sure Randy is aware of what his company needs :whistling:

I'm pretty sure you have no idea of my background. If he is paying that much to have these prototyped I would disagree. In the past I would often eat a small loss on prototype jobs for a promise that I could fixture and produce for a decent quantity run afterwards. A Glock extractor is not exactly a complicated part.


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