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IGotIt 09-29-2012 08:34

Can a Muslim be a "good" American
 
CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Maybe this is why our ‘American’ Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

Theologically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia ..

Religiously - no... Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam. (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no... Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no... Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no.... Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Domestically - no... Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him. (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no.. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no.. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no... Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and 'good' Americans. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

Arc Angel 09-29-2012 08:46

You know? I really do think you've got it! :supergrin:

(Nicely done!) :thumbsup:

simotek 09-29-2012 09:00

I have some Muslim friends through one of my car clubs. All nice guys and aside from not drinking and only eating halal they seem to be perfectly American. I do wonder if maybe they are practicing deception. If they are Allah is very forgiving... that's all I can say about our shenanigans.

One of them is a fairly close friend and two of his best buds are Jews.

I definitely think its possible for Muslim youth to westernize and select only parts of their religion to follow. Much like many self proclaimed Christians and Jews do.

But I guess I will always have a slight skepticism about it. Maybe I should watch my back more closely when our club goes to the shooting range. ;)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

simotek 09-29-2012 09:02

I will add that this guy is the biggest Patriots fan I have ever known.













So maybe he is evil after all. :eek:

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

MotoGlock 09-29-2012 09:11

Facts in the first post is true.


Also one other thing:

Name one Muslim leader in the world that has condemned any of these evil Islamic murders including sept 11, 01. Not one!
Forget their holy leaders, I've never met one so called American Muslim citizen that has spoken against it.

steveksux 09-29-2012 09:12

Certainly not the Muslims who are protecting our country in our armed forces, or in our police or fire departments.

Randy

Kingarthurhk 09-29-2012 09:12

Theologically, you cannot be good yourself.

Romans 3:9-12, "What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage?<sup class="crossreference" value='(N)'></sup> Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.<sup class="crossreference" value='(O)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup> there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup>

<sup></sup>
<sup></sup>
<sup>Luke 18:18-20"</sup>A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
<sup>19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”</sup>
<sup></sup>
<sup></sup>
<sup>Since when is a religious choice against America? Are you not an American if you are a Christian?</sup>
<sup></sup>
<sup>Is not God and the Bible your only true authority?</sup>
<sup></sup>
<sup>Geographically, aren't you the product of immigrants?</sup>
<sup></sup>
<sup>Socially, who do you witness to as part of the great commission?</sup>
<sup></sup>
<sup>Matthew 24:14, "</sup>And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Mark 16:15, "He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."

Aren't Muslims part of the world, what are you doing to reach out to them with the gospel, now that you have publically condemened them?

Politically, do you not vote according to your conscience, guided by your faith?

Domestically, aren't you supposed to be spiritual head of your household?

Ephesians 5:22-24, "Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands<sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ)'></sup> as you do to the Lord.<sup class="crossreference" value='(AK)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church,<sup class="crossreference" value='(AL)'></sup> his body, of which he is the Savior. <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands<sup class="crossreference" value='(AM)'></sup> in everything."

Intellectually, this country was founded upon Christian principals, how are you demonstrating Christian principals again?

Philosophically, it sounds as you declare freedom for all would like to deny a group of people their freedom.

Quote:

Spiritually - no... Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.



If the Christian's God is loving and kind, where is your love for all peoples?


1 Corinthians 13:”If I speak in the tongues<sup>[</sup><sup>a</sup><sup>]</sup> of men orof angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clangingcymbal. <sup>2 </sup>If I have the gift of prophecy andcan fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can movemountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. <sup>3 </sup>IfI give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I mayboast,<sup>[b]</sup> but do not have love, I gain nothing.

<sup>4 </sup>Love is patient, love is kind. It does notenvy, it does not boast, it is not proud. <sup>5 </sup>Itdoes not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, itkeeps no record of wrongs. <sup>6 </sup>Love does notdelight in evil but rejoices with the truth. <sup>7 </sup>Italways protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

<sup>8 </sup>Love never fails. But where there areprophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled;where there is knowledge, it will pass away. <sup>9 </sup>Forwe know in part and we prophesy in part, <sup>10 </sup>butwhen completeness comes, what is in part disappears. <sup>11</sup>When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, Ireasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behindme. <sup>12 </sup>For now we see only a reflection asin a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shallknow fully, even as I am fully known.

<sup>13 </sup>And now these three remain: faith, hope andlove. But the greatest of these is love.”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

As I pointed out earlier no one is good, but only God. So, you, sir, not a good American either.

If you are concerned about Islam, go and do what God has commanded you to do and witness to them rather than condemn them.



<sup></sup><sup class="crossreference" value='(P)'></sup>

SGT HATRED 09-29-2012 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGotIt (Post 19467370)
CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Maybe this is why our ‘American’ Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

Theologically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia ..

Religiously - no... Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam. (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no... Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no... Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no.... Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Domestically - no... Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him. (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no.. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no.. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no... Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and 'good' Americans. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

Excellent post!

IGotIt 09-29-2012 09:42

[QUOTE=Kingarthurhk;19467487]Theologically, you cannot be good yourself.

As I pointed out earlier no one is good, but only God. So, you, sir, not a good American either.

If you are concerned about Islam, go and do what God has commanded you to do and witness to them rather than condemn them.
_________________________________________________________

Theologically speaking back,

Until I grab someone by the hair, yell "Allah is great" while savagely cutting their head off with a long bladed knife, and then hold the severed head up as a trophy, I believe I can condemn rather than accept.

muscogee 09-29-2012 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGotIt (Post 19467370)
CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Maybe this is why our ‘American’ Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

Theologically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia ..

Religiously - no... Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam. (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no... Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no... Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no.... Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Domestically - no... Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him. (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no.. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no.. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no... Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and 'good' Americans. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

According that that argument, neither can Catholics or Jews.

Arc Angel 09-29-2012 10:10

IGotIt, Don't let any of the more bizarre replies dissuade you. This forum is a loony bin for the rest of Glock Talk. Some days I swear the regulars on here must be posting from group activity centers at places with names like, 'Sunny Acres Retreat', 'Graystone Park Hospital', or 'Quiet Dale Recovery Center'. Suggest you take it all in stride. ;)

mike g35 09-29-2012 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arc Angel (Post 19467678)
IGotIt, Don't let any of the more bizarre replies dissuade you. This forum is a loony bin for the rest of Glock Talk. Some days I swear the regulars on here must be posting from group activity centers at places with names like, 'Sunny Acres Retreat', 'Graystone Park Hospital', or 'Quiet Dale Recovery Center'. Suggest you take it all in stride. ;)

:rofl: :rofl: You're spot on!!!! One week reading posts here and I feel like I belong in the nuthouse!!!! LOL GREAT POST!!!!! LOL


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Kingarthurhk 09-29-2012 10:15

[quote=IGotIt;19467570]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk (Post 19467487)
Theologically, you cannot be good yourself.

As I pointed out earlier no one is good, but only God. So, you, sir, not a good American either.

If you are concerned about Islam, go and do what God has commanded you to do and witness to them rather than condemn them.
_________________________________________________________

Theologically speaking back,

Until I grab someone by the hair, yell "Allah is great" while savagely cutting their head off with a long bladed knife, and then hold the severed head up as a trophy, I believe I can condemn rather than accept.

Matthew 5:43-48, "You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor<sup class="footnote" value='[i]'>[i]</sup><sup class="crossreference" value='(AW)'></sup> and hate your enemy.’<sup class="crossreference" value='(AX)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">44 </sup>But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,<sup class="crossreference" value='(AY)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">45 </sup>that you may be children<sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ)'></sup> of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.<sup class="crossreference" value='(BA)'></sup> <sup class="versenum">46 </sup>If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?<sup class="crossreference" value='(BB)'></sup> Are not even the tax collectors doing that? <sup class="versenum">47 </sup>And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? <sup class="versenum">48 </sup>Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."<sup class="crossreference" value='(BC)'></sup>

professorpinki 09-29-2012 10:40

I guess then JFK's first alliance to the pope should be put into question, being that he was a catholic, or Mitt's to President Monson.

That said, Mr. Colin Powell had this to say,

But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, "He's a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists." This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery, and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards — Purple Heart, Bronze Star — showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then, at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have the Star of David, it had crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan, and he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was 14 years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he can go serve his country, and he gave his life. Now, we have got to stop polarizing ourself in this way.


Mr. Powell makes an interesting point, to me. And, to me, it all depends on the individual's alliances, personal beliefs, and his interpretations.

Kingarthurhk 09-29-2012 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by professorpinki (Post 19467758)
I guess then JFK's first alliance to the pope should be put into question, being that he was a catholic, or Mitt's to President Monson.

That said, Mr. Colin Powell had this to say,

But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, "He's a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists." This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery, and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards — Purple Heart, Bronze Star — showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then, at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have the Star of David, it had crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan, and he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was 14 years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he can go serve his country, and he gave his life. Now, we have got to stop polarizing ourself in this way.


Mr. Powell makes an interesting point, to me. And, to me, it all depends on the individual's alliances, personal beliefs, and his interpretations.

The reason we have such a high body count is no one in leadership knows how to properly prosecute a war. The General Grant/D-Day concept of throwing as many warm bodies at a problem doesn't work well in an area with which we have supreme technological supremacy. We spend over a billion dollars a month paying for funneling bodies at a problem and then the aftermath when they come home in bags or permanently broken. Then out of a need for political correcness we put these same people in with 5th columns that regularly assasinate them.

The war has been prosecuted at an extreme indiference to the lives of American troops.

If you want to stop a group of people who hide in a populous make it so untenable for the populous that the deliver to you the terrorist group either dead or alive. This war could have been over a long long time ago.

muscogee 09-29-2012 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk (Post 19467822)
The reason we have such a high body count is no one in leadership knows how to properly prosecute a war. The General Grant/D-Day concept of throwing as many warm bodies at a problem doesn't work well in an area with which we have supreme technological supremacy. We spend over a billion dollars a month paying for funneling bodies at a problem and then the aftermath when they come home in bags or permanently broken. Then out of a need for political correcness we put these same people in with 5th columns that regularly assasinate them.

The war has been prosecuted at an extreme indiference to the lives of American troops.

If you want to stop a group of people who hide in a populous make it so untenable for the populous that the deliver to you the terrorist group either dead or alive. This war could have been over a long long time ago.

Good post. Absolutly.

Glock36shooter 09-29-2012 12:08

CAN CHRISTIANS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Theologically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Jesus, son of Yahweh ..

Religiously - no... Because no other religion is accepted by His Jesus except Christianity. John (14:6)

Scripturally - no... Because his allegiance is to Christ, Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit.

Geographically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Heaven , to which he turns in prayer.

Socially - no... Because his allegiance to his church that teaches him to judge even other Christians who do not believe as he does.

Politically - no.... Because he must attempt to legislate his religion as the law of the land and doesn't understand that America is made up of multiple beliefs and lack thereof.

Domestically - no... Because he is taught to not treat his woman as an equal. That she is to see him as the representation of God in the home. She is expected to obey her husband.

Intellectually - no.. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based in deist principles and America is in no way founded under the Christian faith.

Philosophically - no.. because Christianity does not allow the belief in any God other than their own. America being a country that is accepting of all religions and all beliefs is distasteful to Christians. The very spirit of America as a great melting pot runs counter to Christian dogma.

Spiritually - no... Because when we declare 'one nation under God, it is meant as the deist God or "Creator" which could be anyone's God however the Christian has attempted to rewrite history to mean it to be Jesus.

They obviously cannot be both 'good' Christians and 'good' Americans. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!

Footnote: The Christians want to legislate the entire bible. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

steveksux 09-29-2012 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk (Post 19467822)

If you want to stop a group of people who hide in a populous make it so untenable for the populous that the deliver to you the terrorist group either dead or alive. This war could have been over a long long time ago.

Not so sure of that, you can't get much more ruthless than the Russians in Afghanistan, the Germans in Yugoslavia and France. The British in the American Revolution.

Yet Tito's partisans were able to keep going, as was the French Resistance, and the Afghans actually drove the Soviets out with some help from us. And here we are.

I'm not much of a student of history in general though, so I'm open to some examples of that working. Would be interested if you, or anyone really, can post examples of that working, and how bad we had to make things. And then can we see ourselves in that position?

Also not sure we as a nation have a stomach for the level of brutality required given the innocents in the population in situations like that.

Randy

Kingarthurhk 09-29-2012 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux (Post 19468078)
Not so sure of that, you can't get much more ruthless than the Russians in Afghanistan, the Germans in Yugoslavia and France. The British in the American Revolution.

Yet Tito's partisans were able to keep going, as was the French Resistance, and the Afghans actually drove the Soviets out with some help from us. And here we are.

I'm not much of a student of history in general though, so I'm open to some examples of that working. Would be interested if you, or anyone really, can post examples of that working, and how bad we had to make things. And then can we see ourselves in that position?

Also not sure we as a nation have a stomach for the level of brutality required given the innocents in the population in situations like that.

Randy

If Google can make a so-called "Arab Spring" and distabilize the Middle East, it isn't such a hard feat to accomplish. The people there are easily distracted by simple propaganda placed in the right place. And that is a kinder tactic to use.

The more brutal one would be scorched earth for every location sanctioning and protecting Al Queda until no one would dare give them shelter. That can happen from the sky, and requies no ground troop involvement.

MaxxAction 09-29-2012 13:06

The only personal experience...

I have with any muslim is a couple years ago when I broke my leg. I went into the hospital on sunday, and got out on Wednesday after having surgery on Monday. I had a guy sharing a room with me for about a day and a half who was a Muslim from Jordan. He was a naturalized citizen who has been here for 16 years, and works at Rockwell technologies in champaign.

We talked a little, I say a litttle because I was mostly so stoned On pain meds I couldn't carry on a conversation. But, A few things about this guy were really cool.

when he was getting readybto go up for his surgery, I heard him pray in arabic, and it touched me. I mean, I heard a sincerity in his prayer that was unmistakable. The guy was seeking God, no doubt. He was extremely polite, humble, and real. We talked about God a little, and one of the things he pointed out was that there is, within every religion, those who want to turn God into a crusading extremist. Very wise.

Lastly, the guy was one of the most considerate people I have ever met. I shared my room with three other people that few days, and no one else so much as spoke a word to me. But this muslim man said to me that he gathered from my phone conversations with my wife that we lived quite a distance from the hospital, and when he checked out, he came over to my bed and offered me his business card and told me that if there was anything at all that I needed that I could call him on his cell phone. A hamburger, a candy bar, something to drink, just call and he would come and bring it to me. Not that I would say I was shocked, more like, I had a suspicion confirmed. They aren't all evil, no more than Tim mcveigh calling himself a Christian makes all Christians evil.

We had lunch together a couple times after that, at which he always insisted on paying. Hhe was a good man, and a good human being. He knew I was a follower of Christ, and I knew he was a Muslim, and we were friends. He never threatened to kill me, or behead me for being an infidel. And I never told him he was going to burn in hell for not believing in Jesus. How bout that?


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