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-   -   Winter Clothing Factors (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445124)

SCmasterblaster 09-27-2012 20:24

Winter Clothing Factors
 
My carry load in my G17 is a 115gr bullet doing 1400 FPS. The bullet has a low sectional density and ballistic coefficient, so I wonder about how it will do trying to penetrate through several inches of heavy clothing. I am thinking of changing over to a 147gr JHP in the upcoming cold VT winter. Do I underestimate the fast 115gr JHP bullet? :upeyes:

M 7 09-27-2012 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster (Post 19462785)
My carry load in my G17 is a 115gr bullet doing 1400 FPS. The bullet has a low sectional density and ballistic coefficient, so I wonder about how it will do trying to penetrate through several inches of heavy clothing. I am thinking of changing over to a 147gr JHP in the upcoming cold VT winter. Do I underestimate the fast 115gr JHP bullet? :upeyes:

SC,

I think that you are.

Heavy clothing lacks the tensile strength to stop a bullet. It may clog the expansion cavity of a jacketed hollow point bullet, but the JHP will then behave as a FMJ producing even more penetration than if it hadn't been clogged.

This PDF contains a clothing penetration model that may be of interest to you-

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2005garm/tuesday/hudgins.pdf


Check it out. :)

cowboy1964 09-28-2012 04:59

124+P Gold Dots year round!

I never understood this penchant to change carry ammo for summer vs winter. #1 it's a hassle, #2 you have to stock two different types, #3 you are changing the recoil/feel/POI characteristics, which is never a good thing for shooting to the best of your ability.

LE doesn't change ammo when the season changes, why should you?

kaech 09-28-2012 05:29

I thought about this to. +p+ in the summer and standard pressure 147 hst winter in my G26

The Retired Sarge 09-28-2012 08:39

Choose ammo that will perform in any scenario, any season, any sized bad guy and run with it. As Cowboy1964 so wisely stated, LE does not change ammo with the seasons. In 9mm I would choose either the Federal 147gr HST or Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P. Both perform very well in real shootings, barrier penetration, and both perform well through heavy clothing though I give the nod to the HST there. Both rounds yield about the same good, adequate penetration. Choose one according to what you are confident in: weight/momentum/bullet design or velocity/energy. Bill

SCmasterblaster 09-28-2012 09:44

OK, I will stick to my 9x19 Winchester 115gr JHP +p+ year round.:cool:

unit1069 09-28-2012 22:53

Given the variables I think it's a personal call on ammo selection.

In wintertime I go with either Federal 124-grain +P HST or 135-grain +P Federal Tactical Bonded in my 9mm pistol. I have yet to test the 124-grain Remington Golden Saber +P Bonded but expect it's a quality round. I haven't run into the Speer Gold Dot 124-grain +P ammo (the default round for overall self-defense) but wouldn't question its effectiveness year-round.

For warm weather in my serious 9mm caliber pistol it's the Federal 124-grain HST in standard or +P configuration or 9BPLE with the 124-grain Federal Tactical Bonded as another option. In this caliber there are a lot of viable self-defense ammo options available.

collim1 09-28-2012 23:13

I carry the 147g Gold Dots year round.

avenues165 09-29-2012 00:22

I have wondered the same thing, especially for hiking in the wintertime (folks in heavy coats, not the dreaded "hiking bear"). However, there are some good, common-sense replies in this thread that have helped me realize that I am probably overthinking this one, like I do with everything.

For me it will be 125gr GD in 357 sig or 165gr GDs in .40 S&W year-round, until I overthink something else:smoking:

4949shooter 09-29-2012 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by avenues165 (Post 19466741)
I have wondered the same thing, especially for hiking in the wintertime (folks in heavy coats, not the dreaded "hiking bear"). However, there are some good, common-sense replies in this thread that have helped me realize that I am probably overthinking this one, like I do with everything.

For me it will be 125gr GD in 357 sig or 165gr GDs in .40 S&W year-round, until I overthink something else:smoking:

I think you will be well served by either of these loads. I wish my place of work would let us carry one of them for duty.

SCmasterblaster 09-29-2012 08:27

Thanks folks
 
I will stay with the 9mm +p+ 115gr JHPs for now, but you have offered some interesting alternatives. :cool:

9mm +p+ 09-29-2012 16:33

If you want to change loads switch to a mid weight +p/+p+ skip the 147 garbage, personally I feel the 115 +p+ will perform just fine.

barth 09-29-2012 16:43

Speer GDHP 124 +P 9mm
My understanding is that this is the standard issue round for the NYPD.
And they have been very please with it's use on the street.

Never been to NY, but I'm pretty sure it gets cold there...
http://www.northwestshootersupply.co...autyShot.3.jpg
http://www.ammoman.com/content/image...n_p_53617.jpeg

unit1069 09-29-2012 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by avenues165 (Post 19466741)
For me it will be 125gr GD in 357 sig or 165gr GDs in .40 S&W year-round, until I overthink something else:smoking:

For those two calibers I do believe you have things covered pretty well.

SCmasterblaster 10-01-2012 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by barth (Post 19468700)
Speer GDHP 124 +P 9mm
My understanding is that this is the standard issue round for the NYPD.
And they have been very please with it's use on the street.

Never been to NY, but I'm pretty sure it gets cold there...
http://www.northwestshootersupply.co...autyShot.3.jpg
http://www.ammoman.com/content/image...n_p_53617.jpeg

Nice pictures :supergrin:

Hugo R 10-01-2012 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by barth (Post 19468700)
Speer GDHP 124 +P 9mm
My understanding is that this is the standard issue round for the NYPD.
And they have been very please with it's use on the street.

Never been to NY, but I'm pretty sure it gets cold there...
http://www.northwestshootersupply.co...autyShot.3.jpg
http://www.ammoman.com/content/image...n_p_53617.jpeg

This^^^is what I use...for now.

HR:cool:

Kingarthurhk 10-02-2012 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by barth (Post 19468700)
Speer GDHP 124 +P 9mm
My understanding is that this is the standard issue round for the NYPD.
And they have been very please with it's use on the street.

Never been to NY, but I'm pretty sure it gets cold there...
http://www.northwestshootersupply.co...autyShot.3.jpg
http://www.ammoman.com/content/image...n_p_53617.jpeg

That is what I would carry in a 9mm. But, then again, winter is a lovely excuse for large pistols with larger calibers as well.:supergrin:

SCmasterblaster 10-02-2012 10:37

That
 
is a great idea. I'll get out my Springfield Armory M1911A1 .45 ACP loaded with 255gr bowling pin shooting loads. That would get thru any thick winter clothing for sure! :cool:

fastbolt 10-02-2012 11:40

Usually when the subject of what calibers/loads are used by large agencies who operate in pretty cold climes, it's seemed that 9's get 147gr loads and .40's get 180gr loads. (I mean when this subject comes up and is this being discussed among firearms instructors & armorers.)

While you hear of 230gr .45 loads being favored among .45 users, I've also had an instructor from an agency in the NE tell me his agency finally switched from .45 to .40 in order to get more consistent penetration and expansion in their duty pistols when engaging heavily clothed armed suspects in the coldest times of the year.

Seems to me the ISP, who used the 115gr +P+ loads made by Winchester & Federal for many years, didn't have any complaints about their favored load during different seasons.

Having used a variety of standard pressure, +P & +P+ 9mm loads over the years, I don't get too fussy about bullet weight anymore. Given a choice, I do prefer to use one of the better designed bullets, though.

I also don't hope for caliber, bullet weight & design or MV to offset any lack on my part when it comes to mindset, skillset, experience and being able to employ necessary tactics.

Kentguy 10-02-2012 16:11

"I also don't hope for caliber, bullet weight & design or MV to offset any lack on my part when it comes to mindset, skillset, experience and being able to employ necessary tactics."

Excellent point fastbolt.

Great ammo is a good thing to research and fine but just as important is being able to hit something with it in a crisis situation.


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